The Two S&L Dies for RK's

[Dave Kane]

No! Let's not close the thread!!!!


Maybe we can take a different approach and look at the markings....from the early larger 800, the micro 800 mid-war? etc etc!

We already know the 935 has a spurious font and the crosses bearing only that mark deemed post war assembled.

Let's look at the other 'fonts' for a change....

[Brian S]

That's what we have, cores and frames and frames are not telling the 'story'.

[Brian S]

Dave why don't you try a core thread?

[Harry]

I still would like to find an answer why a pre-45 cross has not blip, a 935 has one and a 57 has none again. That's all.

Dietrich[/QUOTE]

Dietrich,

We have Early 1957 pattern S&L RKs which are flawless and have no blip. We also have erly '57 S&L RKs which are heavily flawed and have the blip. It would mean that all the 935-only marked crosses and all the zinc cored unmarked flawless crosses would have been struck between the making of these '57 ers, a very short time span if you ask me. Also, why do we not see the beginins of the die flaws on these dubious crosses which eventually leads to the flawed '57 pattern? We DONT.........

[Brian S]

I also believe by 1957 a Daughter die is not out of the question.

[Dave Kane]

I also believe by 1957 a Daughter die is not out of the question.

No way Brian

I'm sure we can find the same fingerprints and landmarks on the early '57 Crosses as on the war time frames....heck they are even on the post war assembled types up through and including the extremly flat (strike) and very flawed frames.

[Harry]

Is it possible to duplicate a die, with as much precision so that even minute flaws are copied, maybe to to a lesser definition?? I mean, can one die be used to make another, for use on softer metals????

[Dave Kane]

No way Harry....we would then have all 'PERFECT' Crosses...sharp, well defined, non repaired and surely without the pocked area.

S&L wouldn't have had to change (frame) die after '57 etc etc etc

The dealers wouldn't have had much 'stock' these last 40 years, nor had the fun of making up stories and excuses...'late war'....'metal shortage'....'rushed orders'...

And, we wouldn't be involved in this discussion

One die Harry...but lots of 'hits' from it post war!!!

[Erickn]

No Blip

I still would like to find an answer why a pre-45 cross has not blip, a 935 has one and a 57 has none again. That's all.

Dietrich

Dietrich,

We have Early 1957 pattern S&L RKs which are flawless and have no blip. We also have erly '57 S&L RKs which are heavily flawed and have the blip. It would mean that all the 935-only marked crosses and all the zinc cored unmarked flawless crosses would have been struck between the making of these '57 ers, a very short time span if you ask me. Also, why do we not see the beginins of the die flaws on these dubious crosses which eventually leads to the flawed '57 pattern? We DONT.........[/QUOTE]

Heavy flawed beaded edge w/o blip.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Erikn,

very good point! And waht's even more puzzling is that this cross w/o blip and with heavy flaws is a B-Type as can be clearly seen by the 6-9 o'clock flaw!
How about the "Kane Split"?

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Because if you believe in the single die as I always have, this '57 example, with HEAVY FLAWS, get that, HEAVY FLAWS, may have had a repair at some point. The blip may have been repaired. Then new stress points opened.

[Erickn]

Check out the 3:00 side

[Erickn]

overall front

[Dietrich Maerz]

Apart form the theory of one repaired die or two dies or three, for this investigation it really doesn't matter. The important thing is that the second die state (again: repaired or new) has some distinct features which the first does NOT have. As you can see here; the 6-9 o'clock knee flaw and the dent row and now also the typical beading flaws.

Okay, they repaired the blip but did not touch the dent row. So, my 57 has no blip, no beading flaws but the dent row and must be, to follow this theory, just have been repaired. Since mine has no beading flaws at all, the reason for repair must have been the blip since 'my' dent row is more pronaunced then Erikn's so I would venture, as a theory, that my cross is closer to 45. However, the core has the flat numerals. Isn't that later? I really don't know this.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Dave, we need a core thread.......

Come on, you have the most to show. Frames aren't the ONLY part of the cross and not the only part of the cross that can show die progressions.