The Two S&L Dies for RK's

[Dave Kane]

Ok lads I will accept the majority opinion that the scars are not 'hand finishing'....but I will cast a vote with Brian's view of yet more sloppy work on a single die!

The 'scar' is on the flat of the flange suggesting a raised material on the face of the die....

DM, is there silvering in the creases?

[Brian S]

But it has this feature, which all 57 1st model crosses, that I have looked at, have so far. This step at the upper rim portion. And this step is neither present at the A-Type nor the B-Type!

Dietrich

But, it could also be on some with swasis that the S&L people put out in the fifties.

Dietrich, WHERE exactly is this???

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here is the position. And the silvering is the same 'rough', laquer' type.

[Dave Kane]

That's why I thought initially that it was a 'hand finishing' fingerprint because of how it abruptly ends...and then naturally turn the cross around a 1/4 turn and start again!

[Dietrich Maerz]

It's not hand finishing. It's clearly a die feature.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Something may have been going on here requiring a fix.

9 o'clock corner right?

[Brian S]

It's not hand finishing. It's clearly a die feature.

Dietrich

Dietrich, Dave is properly saying hand finishing, on the die itself.

[Dave Kane]

Anticipating this....doesn't this look like just a worn out, put to bed wet, red headed stepchild and in a very base sense OVER WORKED result...........of a repaired (numerous times) die??

[Brian S]

Nobody seems to like history lessons, but if you were S&L, 1939, what was your experience with Germany's highest award?

The PlM.

Awarded 8,000+ times? Hardly. If you were S&L you would have anticipated maybe a few thousand, a quick war and your share maybe several hundred.

There were maybe less than 700 PlMs awarded.

No one knew in 1939 awards would be handed out like candy.

Over ten times the number of RKs to PlMs. Hardly somthing to anticipate, hardly a reason to think you'll be needing to reproduce your die from a master.

Hardly. But, hey, why bring historical reference into this...

[Dave Kane]

All, although it may appear that I'm 'playing off' Brian......I am not ofcourse BUT I must admit that I was totally OVERWHELMED with the recent 1500 +/- photographs I recieved


Now just imagine that 1500 is just a fraction of that which was awarded and more so that which may have been manufactured...


How could S&L anticipate the number required............?

It just makes sense and surely is logical!

[George Stimson]

S&l

Yes, they could have anticipated making far fewer than they ended up having to. Possibly. But we don't really know, do we?

[Dave Kane]

George...does 'possibly' fall within the guidelines or does one have to assert 'in my opinion'??

[George Stimson]

Stating a possibility is different than stating something as a fact, don't you think?

[Brian S]

IMHO the sun will rise tomorrow.

IMHO the sun disappearing will result in darkness.

I know these things because that's what has happened in the days before.

Surely, S&L would have anticipated Germany's highest award being akin to the PlM.

You want word games???

The PlM went through variations over it's hundred year plus history. One could assume S&L would have thought the RK would go through variations or evolve just as the PlM did.

Common sense, I would hope, might still have some value here...

[George Stimson]

It's not word games, Brian. I'm just striving for accuracy. You can't state what S&L would have anticipated unless you have some information from them which establishes their state of mind.
Just state your theories as theories, and not as conclusions. That's all. It's easy.
(And, giving awards out like candy? The Third Reich? Naahh. )