The Two S&L Dies for RK's

[Dietrich Maerz]

The other B-Type sign, the 6-9 o'clock knee flaw is also present. For me this is a post 45 S&L production and could have been sold as an 'early' production!

I do not know yet why the weight is so low. The frame is actually 'bigger' (only by severl 1/10 of mm) and so it the thickness of the rim (1.41 mm to 1.27 mm), but this cannot account for the difference of 3.2 gr. It must be the core material or core thickness. The thickness above the swastika is 0.7 mm less than the heavily flawed example. Further investigation into the cross will be conducted.

Dietrich

[Dietrich Maerz]

This piece proves IMHO two things:

- S&L did produce relatively shortly after the war 'repros'
- the heavily flawed die was maybe used by a fraudster later on, but before by S&L.

For me it would be very interesting to put a '935' marked cross under the scope .....and a 800-4.

Dietrich

[Dietrich Maerz]

The finish has a very 'silvery' look, kind of 'cheap silver'.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The 'frosting' is a clever one! At first I thought it might be the real pickling. But that's not so as can be seen with the attached picture. At this point in time I think it is a kind of 'frosting laquer' that was applied to the whole frame and then the rims were polished. Which was done in a very 'hasty' way between the beading and the loop, as can bee seen by the irratic polish marks.
Also a lot of 'frosting laquer' is still visible under the ring - and with the naked eye it looks convincing!

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Is the core from the same die as wartime?

[Dietrich Maerz]

This "frosting" could really fool the uninitiated or untrained into believing it is the real deal...

[Brian S]

However, the cross has the dent row in a fairly pristine occurance, i.e. stronger pronaunced as with the 57 crosses. Both on the obverse and reverse. Therefore a typical B-Type and manufactured after the 935-4, IMHO.

Pristine, or

1) simply unworn
2) not finished

[Dietrich Maerz]

Brian,

I don't know what you mean so let me explain what I mean. The 57's I saw so far hat the dent row 'weaker' and less dents (5-6 if I recall properly). This cross (which is definetely unworn) has the dent row with all 11 dents just as the 935-4. However, slightly less strong and a little more 'unsharp'.

Here is the date. I never really looked into the cores. So you tell me if this is a wartime core. I don't know.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Dietrich...the 'frosting' has been one of the SECRETS not spoken of often. A dead giveaway when one looks closely and realizes it's silvery rather than 'milky-yellow'.

You may find that the 'strike' is weak showing the ridges to be rounded and the valleys shallow.

The cross you have is a great 'college level' type as you will learn lots from it...

As you probably know there are other crosses that show a 'nicer' quality but they too have their 'giveaways'!!!

Follow the known 'flaw' avenues....you may discover evidence of repair in the face of the material...!

[Brian S]

Yes, I'd very much like to see some real clear photos of the areas Dave and I think were repaired. No acid to wear it down, no wear, it could be very interesting.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dave,

I will take a lot of microscope pictures and I will post all the areas. It just takes some time. But that's not a problem. And I will look closely for two things:

- new 'baby' flaws for the time line
- reapir signs (the problem is: don't know hwo it should look...)

Maybe it's college level for some, for others it's a $ 5.000,- cross!

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Brian,

I don't know what you mean so let me explain what I mean. The 57's I saw so far hat the dent row 'weaker' and less dents (5-6 if I recall properly). This cross (which is definetely unworn) has the dent row with all 11 dents just as the 935-4. However, slightly less strong and a little more 'unsharp'.

Here is the date. I never really looked into the cores. So you tell me if this is a wartime core. I don't know.

Dietrich

When you said pristine dent row, I assumed by that YOU meant a clear sharp row of dents. I don't think we have a large enough population yet to date the sharpness of the dent row do we? Can you put this dent row next to an early one to compare?

[Brian S]

Dave,

I will take a lot of microscope pictures and I will post all the areas. It just takes some time. But that's not a problem. And I will look closely for two things:

- new 'baby' flaws for the time line
- reapir signs (the problem is: don't know hwo it should look...)



Dietrich

Show us the 3 o'clock and an area that didn't need repairs and let's see if we can see more signs of this spidering.

[Dietrich Maerz]

When you said pristine dent row, I assumed by that YOU meant a clear sharp row of dents. I don't think we have a large enough population yet to date the sharpness of the dent row do we? Can you put this dent row next to an early one to compare?

You saw as much dent rows then me... It's less pristine then the 935-4 but more then the 4 57 I currently have here. So it's between. That's all I can say.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

It would be great to pictorially portray a progression of the dent row if it's showing any differences over 'time'.