Grandcross early Souval

[Tony T-S]

What a strange thread. Alex’s research into Souvals is well known here. Anyway, a nice version of the GK. I have the matching RK to this 800 L/58. I also have the neusibler version of the RK from the same period. Beautiful pieces. My GK is one of the variants with the gold flanges and silver beading, each frame marked 800, with the loop marked in the same way.

[Alex W.]

I think when you say learning, that means not simple take every post for full and because someone write something it automatic has to be like this. If all others accept this good for everyone. That not means i can ask a bit more in detail when someone say something, and then when i ask on that source this is build on, comes up with i have enough crosses. Nothing to you personal, everyone collect different, and i have my way to do it. As you write, you study and come to your believe....and i have mine. Very simple, nothing personal

The more you write, the less I‘m wondering why you weren’t able to figure out a correct timeline despite handling - as you have said yourself - „countless“ such crosses over the last 25 years.
As I have said earlier, it doesn’t matter if you accept my perceptions or not. It’s facts that support my perceptions. I gave you the easiest understandable example of the unmarked German Crosses - the leftover wartime hardware used, just by itself already proves my point compared to the more typical types of later seen hardware. Not even talking about anything else etc.
I’ve supplied you enough info to be able to start learning about the correct timeline and markings on these postwar produced crosses. It‘s not my problem, if you aren‘t able to do so.
After all, let‘s not forget, that you were the one asking for assistance on your GK. Obviously you don‘t seem to be too certain about your own timeline; despite your 25 years of collectors experience and the „countless“ crosses you handled. On the other hand, you do seem to have a pretty arrogant attitude, certainly not helpful.
I‘ll quit arguing with you, since I don’t have anything further to add to this discussion. It’s pointless arguing with ignorant people.
Just keep believing what you like - that’s fine, but please don‘t advertise pieces for sale or trade for something they are not.

[AntiqueWW2]

Very well, then i am Ignorant. And what means i advertise a Item for something they are not? I wrote in the Description one of the very early Grand Crosses, and thats exactly what it is and nothing else. And its interesting that when i doubt something or simple question it, then i am Ignorant. And with what you wrote you as well not figure out anything, you just see it that way. Anyway, i am not here to argue around with someone who is not in front of me, makes no sense. All i say, i have enough crosses and study what ever...is no proof to me for anything. I did not say you are not right or you are wrong, only i will always ask a question when i think different. You are free to belive what ever you want, same as i do.

The more you write, the less I‘m wondering why you weren’t able to figure out a correct timeline despite handling - as you have said yourself - „countless“ such crosses over the last 25 years.
As I have said earlier, it doesn’t matter if you accept my perceptions or not. It’s facts that support my perceptions. I gave you the easiest understandable example of the unmarked German Crosses - the leftover wartime hardware used, just by itself already proves my point compared to the more typical types of later seen hardware. Not even talking about anything else etc.
I’ve supplied you enough info to be able to start learning about the correct timeline and markings on these postwar produced crosses. It‘s not my problem, if you aren‘t able to do so.
After all, let‘s not forget, that you were the one asking for assistance on your GK. Obviously you don‘t seem to be too certain about your own timeline; despite your 25 years of collectors experience and the „countless“ crosses you handled. On the other hand, you do seem to have a pretty arrogant attitude, certainly not helpful.
I‘ll quit arguing with you, since I don’t have anything further to add to this discussion. It’s pointless arguing with ignorant people.
Just keep believing what you like - that’s fine, but please don‘t advertise pieces for sale or trade for something they are not.

[dmytro]

Nice Cross, and still a Cross alone not proof when it was made....i did not say they not exist, i say the early Examples are all marked L58......

Then perhaps instead of you insisting that Alex W shows his proof, that you show your proof based on the above statement