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Grandcross early Souval

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    Grandcross early Souval

    I put this Grandcross up for Trade/Sell and i like to hear what you think about it. I would set this one to the very early made Souvals. Since i sell very rare anything, i am not sure about its Value, so every Opinion is always welcome

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=991814
    WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

    Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

    #2
    Thats really a nice one, not sure if it is an early example, but a nice one for sure.


    I would say together with the case between 500 and 600 Euros??


    But thats only my opinion....


    Matt

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      #3
      Thank you. To me it is one of the very early examples. Later on they never got close to that Quality anymore.

      Originally posted by August von Mackensen View Post
      Thats really a nice one, not sure if it is an early example, but a nice one for sure.


      I would say together with the case between 500 and 600 Euros??


      But thats only my opinion....


      Matt
      WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

      Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

      Comment


        #4
        The Souval GK‘s with an unmagnetic core are the earliest postwar made crosses by Souval. They are rare to find. (Unmagnetic core, different black paint, different type of suspension loop, beautiful frosted finish, unmarked). Even though the frames are silver, the earliest crosses were usually not marked.
        Assuming your GK has a magnetic core, I would say it was made sometime between the mid 1950‘s - mid 1960‘s. It looks to be a cross of the earlier post war years. It‘s a nice Grand Cross.

        As for pricing - I’ve seen earlier made Souval Grand Cross sell bellow 500-600€. I've also seen them sell for almost double that as well. Then again I have also picked up GK's for a lot less... it depends...

        I have a few Souval and St&L made GK's as well.



        Regards,
        Alex

        Comment


          #5
          Nice Crosses you have there. However, i never hear that Souval in the early years sold anything what was not marked with L/58. Until now, every KC or GC i had in hands from them in real Souval Quality where marked with L/58. As well i did not know that there was a unmagnetic early GC or KC from Souval.......Later yes, but the Quality was a lot lot less good then the early Types from them. But you never know, possible they produced them right after the War as Souveniers for the occupation Forces, and since the Raw Materials where short everywhere they used unmagnetic Cores
          WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

          Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
            Nice Crosses you have there. However, i never hear that Souval in the early years sold anything what was not marked with L/58. Until now, every KC or GC i had in hands from them in real Souval Quality where marked with L/58. As well i did not know that there was a unmagnetic early GC or KC from Souval.......Later yes, but the Quality was a lot lot less good then the early Types from them. But you never know, possible they produced them right after the War as Souveniers for the occupation Forces, and since the Raw Materials where short everywhere they used unmagnetic Cores
            That’s the good thing about this forum. There is always something to be learned. Same thing goes for the earliest Souval RK‘s - Unmagnetic, unmarked,... etc.
            As for the later years - there were no unmagnetic GC’s or RK’s in the later years.

            Comment


              #7
              Well of course i like to learn, but as well i like to see something what backs it up as well. When i did not come across in 25 Years one of these unmagnetic Crosses then i like to know from where they come from or why Souval who was known to mark everything put out these Crosses first......

              Originally posted by Alex W. View Post
              That’s the good thing about this forum. There is always something to be learned. Same thing goes for the earliest Souval RK‘s - Unmagnetic, unmarked,... etc.
              As for the later years - there were no unmagnetic GC’s or RK’s in the later years.
              WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

              Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
                Well of course i like to learn, but as well i like to see something what backs it up as well. When i did not come across in 25 Years one of these unmagnetic Crosses then i like to know from where they come from or why Souval who was known to mark everything put out these Crosses first......
                Sure, everyone is free to do their own research.
                Souval marking everything is another myth. They certainly stamped a lot in the earlier years but definitely not all their badges. I do have enough early zinc badges without the L/58 mark.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Of course, but as i wrote before, without any solid backup....is easy to say but hard to proof. To me, Souval marked all there early KCs as well as GCs with L/58. I had countless of them in my Hands, and they are easy to spot. Anything else, unmarked is of course possible, but to me makes no sense. Why should a Company first put out low quality Work...then raise the Quality and then go back to low Quality again. And just because you have enough early Zink Badges means this is what Souval did first.....


                  Originally posted by Alex W. View Post
                  Sure, everyone is free to do their own research.
                  Souval marking everything is another myth. They certainly stamped a lot in the earlier years but definitely not all their badges. I do have enough early zinc badges without the L/58 mark.
                  WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                  Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just to confirm what Alex W has said, my V early Souval GK, non-magnetic core (Zinc) unmarked frames

                    Alex K



                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nice Cross, and still a Cross alone not proof when it was made....i did not say they not exist, i say the early Examples are all marked L58......



                      Originally posted by dmytro View Post
                      Just to confirm what Alex W has said, my V early Souval GK, non-magnetic core (Zinc) unmarked frames

                      Alex K



                      WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                      Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I believe that I have already been helpful enough in assisting your potential sale. I have named you several differences between your cross and a true early post war made Souval GK/RK. Of course you are free to doubt my option, but that is what studying various stages of GK/RK production lead me to believe - Crosses that production range from the late 1940 into the early 1970‘s.
                        I‘m afraid that the countless crosses that you had in your hands in the last 25 years left you non the wiser on how to date post war production Souval.

                        If you care to learn more on this subject it‘s best to start in the 1957 section. There have been enough posts about this subject in recent years.
                        If I had no idea on how to date these post war Souval pieces, I suggest to start with the German Cross series. It‘s the easiest one to learn a lot from. You’ll find the same pattern on the earliest ones - unmarked, different (Souval wartime !) hardware, different finish, etc....

                        If you do decide to put the GK in the bazaar section it would be nice to mention that the GK case in not a factory used Souval GK case. It might be interesting to a potential buyer.
                        Last edited by Alex W.; 02-07-2019, 11:55 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Alex W. View Post
                          I believe that I have already been helpful enough in assisting your potential sale. I have named you several differences between your cross and a true early post war made Souval GK/RK. Of course you are free to doubt my option, but that is what studying various stages of GK/RK production lead me to believe - Crosses that production range from the late 1940 into the early 1970‘s.
                          I‘m afraid that the countless crosses that you had in your hands in the last 25 years left you non the wiser on how to date post war production Souval.

                          If you care to learn more on this subject it‘s best to start in the 1957 section. There have been enough posts about this subject in recent years.
                          If I had no idea on how to date these post war Souval pieces, I suggest to start with the German Cross series. It‘s the easiest one to learn a lot from. You’ll find the same pattern on the earliest ones - unmarked, different (Souval wartime !) hardware, different finish, etc....

                          If you do decide to put the GK in the bazaar section it would be nice to mention that the GK case in not a factory used Souval GK case. It might be interesting to a potential buyer.

                          I would never doubt Alex's knowledge. This whole topic on Souval made pieces is so fascinating. A collecting area in itself. The Souval higher awards are superb.


                          Tom

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A post war cross that should have been listed in the bazaar section.

                            Chet
                            Zinc stinks!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think when you say learning, that means not simple take every post for full and because someone write something it automatic has to be like this. If all others accept this good for everyone. That not means i can ask a bit more in detail when someone say something, and then when i ask on that source this is build on, comes up with i have enough crosses. Nothing to you personal, everyone collect different, and i have my way to do it. As you write, you study and come to your believe....and i have mine. Very simple, nothing personal




                              Originally posted by Alex W. View Post
                              I believe that I have already been helpful enough in assisting your potential sale. I have named you several differences between your cross and a true early post war made Souval GK/RK. Of course you are free to doubt my option, but that is what studying various stages of GK/RK production lead me to believe - Crosses that production range from the late 1940 into the early 1970‘s.
                              I‘m afraid that the countless crosses that you had in your hands in the last 25 years left you non the wiser on how to date post war production Souval.

                              If you care to learn more on this subject it‘s best to start in the 1957 section. There have been enough posts about this subject in recent years.
                              If I had no idea on how to date these post war Souval pieces, I suggest to start with the German Cross series. It‘s the easiest one to learn a lot from. You’ll find the same pattern on the earliest ones - unmarked, different (Souval wartime !) hardware, different finish, etc....

                              If you do decide to put the GK in the bazaar section it would be nice to mention that the GK case in not a factory used Souval GK case. It might be interesting to a potential buyer.
                              WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                              Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                              Comment

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