The Rounder - Technical Aspects

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dear fellow collectors!

I will try in the following post to show the pure technical aspects of the so called Rounder. Nothing else and everything I know so far and the things that cannot be denied, becaus it's there for everybody to see, weight, touch and investigate.

Maybe this is a good basis to try and have e 'new start'.

The name Rounder comes from the rounded inner corners which are - contrary to the filed corners we sometimes see with a Juncker - an inherent part of the die, i.e. intended by the designer or producer of the die.

My personal therory about this is that is was done for the reason that there will be more room to the swastika and therefore possible fitting problems are less likely. The rounded corners are nothing new, there are EK1 and EK2 showing the same feature.

For the Rk's however, it' seems to be unique, not using Juncker as another example since it was not intentiona. The Detlev 'unknown' (page 490 of his new price guide) might be another example, however, those corners could have been filed, too.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The core of the cross is iron and the frame of all the examples I have observed so far is always stamepd "800" in very defined numerals. The loop is also stamped '800" and the loop ends are nicely finishe.

I did test my cross with SEM and the frame is made of high grade silver. I will come to those test results later.

The swastika is pyramidial in shape, looking at hthe cross section, and the top corners are rounded. I venture to say not by hand but via original design of the die for the core.

The swastika is level with the beading, maybe even just a tiny bit higher.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The observed weight range from 25.4 gr - 28.4 gr so far (w/o loops). The weight of the loops range from 1.3 gr - 1.6 gr.

The observed diemnsions are:

Width : 48.85 - 48.88 mm
Height: 48.65 - 48.69 mm
Rim Thickness: 1.73 mm
Thickness middle of 3 o'clock arm : 4.57 mm
Diameter of ring: 6.69 - 6.77 mm
Loop wire diameter : 1.51 - 1.54 mm

The ring is an integral part of the cross and 'sits' on top of the frame.


The soldering lines are hardly distinguishable and the overall quality from normal distance is very good. That might be s subjective observation, however

[Harry]

Dietrich, great pics

Some questions have arisen in my mind looking at these.
1. Are these paint strokes on the core, arrowed white,?
2. An excess of material around the swaz., arrowed red. Is this paint or is it solder?
3. Are these characteristics seen on other 'rounders' and, if so, are they identical in appearance?

[Dietrich Maerz]

The numerals are well defined and -compared to other RK's - slightly thinner. Also the lower curves of the '9's and the '3' do not curve back as high as with other RK's. The '3' of the reverse date is slightly tilted inwards.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Harry,

there's a lot more to come ...

It's not solder, its paint 'bubbles'. So far I have only seen this on my cross and a in discussion with Gordon Williamson about this he mentioned that this can be sometimes seen. However, all the other Rounders I've investigated don't have those.

The signs you pointed out are not paint strokes, IMHO. Here's a poicture of that area. The paint surface has the typical grany structure as can be observed with other RK's, maybe a little smoother. This is for sure a result of the use of different paint.

May I kindly ask to wait with the discussion start? It might be beneficial to have everything what I know continuosly and then let the discussion start. Okay?

Attached is a picture of the paint stucture.

[Harry]

Oops! I will sit back for a while

[Dietrich Maerz]

Since we are now already at the paint, let me pull this ahead.


The Rounder was tested under SEM, mainly for elemental composition of paint and frame.

The frame is made of high grade silver, at least the one that was tested. The paint is not 'bone paint', i.e. no P and Ca in significant levels. The predominatnt other elements (i.e. other than C wich is the 'black') are Si (Silicium, not to be confused with Silicon) Oxygen O and Ba (Barium).
Silicium is and was used way before the 40's as a filler for paint and is nothing unusual, the mores so, when a WW1 EK1 shows up with a lot of Silicium.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here is the SEM result of the silver frame.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here are two other examples, the WW1 Godet and a Juncker Lazy 2.

One CANNOT compare the peaks of the elements to each other and draw a conclusion about the individual quantity. One needs the actual print out of the element percentages (w/o C, as normally given) AND the actual percentage of C as a total. Then, and only then, can one calculate the relative composition to each other. Unfortunately, those numbers are not available at this point in time.

But again, the paint of my Rounder (and maybe other Rounders, too) is different, but, IMHO, not unique.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Most likely we will; come back to this subject later..

Now something about the marking. As mentioned earlier, all crosses I've seen so far have an '800' mark and two are marked '7' in addition.

In both cases it is clear - at least to me - that the "7" was applied before the frames were soldered together.

Interestingly enough, the second picture shows residue of the during the polishing procedure removed frosting.

[Dietrich Maerz]

During the SEM testing pictures with realtively high magnification were taken. Thoses pictures - one must remind oneself - are of really high magnification and reveal a complete different viewing world. It is - IMHO - not correct to 'transform' those pictures to 'normal' viewing status (like" it fills the screen the same as a full picture of the cross...') and deduct from the interesting details visible something that is based in it's visual appearance in the normal world.

The picture below, given to Tom Hansen during his test of my Rounder, is of a magnification of 100x. The dimensions of the picture are approx.1.2 mm across and 1.0 mm high.

So the 'waves' are about 0.25 mm long and 0.03 mm thick. Those dimensions are a clear indication that they could only be very minute flaws or maybe even machining marks. I hope some members here can confirm that thoses waves are also sometimes a typical sign of "material flow" when under pressure. They are an indication of the die stamping process and not a sign of "lack in quality". I think one can reasonably assume that neither was the intend by any producer to avoid waves or flaws of that size nor where they a product of intentional sloppy workmanship with the die.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here is the same area under a little less dramatic magnification and in color, something that surely helps. Picture size is approx. 2.5 x 1.9 mm.

A sign of a fake? I would not know, but it is a distinctive feature of my cross.

[Dietrich Maerz]

It has been suggested that the beading quality is low compared to other RK's. For sure the beading is different since it is a different die.

One also need to consider the finish the actual cross received, i.e. the frosting which is chemival process removing the copper in the 800 silver and therefore crating a very thin surface area with a high grade silver. It is also clear, that this frosting process leaves a crystalic and rough surface that can easily be mistaken for 'casting' or such. The high point are polished as always.

Here is a picture of the Rounder Beading (left) and the beading of a 935-4.

It becomes immidiately clear that both crosses have their distinctive style, but also both crosses reveal "irregularities" in shape of the beading, valleys of the beading and the nicks and dents that are everywhere.

IMHO, the Rounder is not less or more quality then the other crosses I have looked at in detail. They ALL are 'ugly' under magnification.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The rim is posilhes as it should be. This polishing process leaves marks that seem to be typical for this process and I could observe those on all the crosses I looked at in deatil so far.

Left are the marks on the Rounder, right is a S&L marked '800'