RK des KVK

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Tom Thanks for droping by, I read the thread you are mentioning about, and I must admit the lack of detail on thhe wreath had me a little concered.

Are you saying this is an early version of the RK

Is this the flaw you are talking about? I will try and get some side photo's or scans of the wreath tommorow I also will get some photo's of the interior opf the case.

[tom hansen]

Hi Tom Thanks for droping by, I read the thread you are mentioning about, and I must admit the lack of detail on thhe wreath had me a little concered.

Are you saying this is an early version of the RK

Is this the flaw you are talking about? I will try and get some side photo's or scans of the wreath tommorow I also will get some photo's of the interior opf the case.

No Lawrence. If you look at the other cross I posted on the comparison, there is more metal extending from the "blunted" middle strike of the "3" on the later version. On the earlier version, which it appears to me that your cross is an example of, there is simply attenuation of the middle stike of the "3".

As far at the detail of the wreath, neither is markedly detailed. However, on the earlier version, the borders of the oak leaves indent more deeply than the later version. On this later version, which I presume is not a fake, as one of the crosses I have has provenance and matches other, there is a flaw on the inferior part of the 6 oclock arm as well which characterizes this piece.

[tom hansen]

Here is what I am referring to on the "3"

[tom hansen]

Here is the flare on the scroll at the top

[tom hansen]

Here is the flaw at 6

[tom hansen]

side views- rich in details

[tom hansen]

another

[tom hansen]

another side view

[tom hansen]

last one

[Laurence Strong]

Thanks Tom I will check out those areas for you. How did you get the close ups of the wreath? I tried it with my scanner but it did not turn out then I have one more thing to try with the scanner

[tom hansen]

Lawrence-


This is just from a coolpix 4300 digital camera with a zoom attachment and photoshop cropping of the image.

Your wreath will not match this on the side views because they are two separate dies! THERE APPEARS TO BE 2 SEPARATE DIES, ONE EARLY, ONE LATE. They are different.

[tom hansen]

I forgot to preface all my previous posts for Brian S- I qualify any information I have presented here, in that I am not a self purported "expert" here and am trying to discuss the RK KVK. It seems as though only the weight of the early and late crosses have been discussed with no mention of entitely different dies. However, close inspection shows there to be two entirely different dies. Thoughts?


One rub against the RK KVK has been that with its simple construction that it can be easily faked. I think that anyone taking a look at the side of the wreath would agree that this is alot easier said than done. There are many flaws there that characterize this piece and are consistent with the two "late" RK KVK with swords that I have.

Do not feel shy about weighin in here, even if you do not have an example in hand. I am interested to here what people think of the comparison of the images of these pieces, as I do not think that anyone knows much about these (myself included). Apparently, even in Gordon's upcoming book, he does not note two different dies for these, so there is alot for all of us to learn here.

[Laurence Strong]

Not sure if I did the right side, this is the swaz side at the 12 oclock

[Laurence Strong]

6 oclock of the swaz side, I changed the magnification and posted a new photo

[tom hansen]

There are no flaws on the 6 oclock arm and there is not a flaring of the vertical bands at 12 oclock on this piece, which seems to correspond with the earlier, heavier version, which has a little more sharply demarcated folds in the leaves of the wreath and does not have the extra "beak" of metal at the middle part of the "3". Perhaps if we had a true expert with 35 years of collecting experience, these details would already be known and described. Perhaps there is one out there that can help us!

Do you have some side views of the wreath as well, Lawrence? Thanks very much for posting the pictures. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the differences in these? Why two dies?