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    #16
    IMO These pieces made the afterwar
    or only interesting it
    these piece not same frame and not uniform
    this the piece same than Jarek type ,but in the first piece the not same the frame type
    Originally posted by Dansson View Post
    I agree.
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      #17
      I'm far away to state they are Good but still thinking why? For money?these are quite rare on the market so what, for fun? Anyway it's interesting.

      Comment

        #18
        ...
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          #19
          Originally posted by nebo28 View Post
          I inform all colleagues that in 2014 in the Central archive of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, discovered documents of the war years, clearly confirming the fact of production by the political Directorate of the Leningrad front, Iron cross (called the "agitmaterialy") and containing recommendations on expanding the "orders" of the enemy forces. Yes, "catalog, or price list", and even more photographs not represented and is not known EXACTLY looked like crosses. But now it is known that such crosses were.......
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            #20
            Personally, I also have a problem with this cross, but the history of its origin is quite credible.

            As usual, Russian propaganda was very important to the actions of depreciating the enemy. It was possible to spend money on it, which was not for other matters. It's a known fact.
            Russia's willingness to lower the rank of the Iron Cross has allowed some untypical action.

            The imitation of the Iron Cross was produced (some sources claim that it was about 500 pieces of Crosses EK1 and EK2 altogether), but dated 1941 (instead of 1939) and with the words "Für Raub und Morder" (for predators and murderers). For the production of these crosses the original frames of the EK2-1939 crosses were used (for this reason we encounter different frames in these crosses, but they are always original).
            Only the new core of the cross was produced (In this way the whole action was not very expensive).

            The crosses were then scattered in the German troops stationed around the besieged Leningrad.
            According to preserved documents from the Russian archives: ... the crosses were to be scattered in small quantities (1-2 packets = 2-4 crosses) in one place and in visible places, for example on exposed rocks, on the back of the trench, at the entrance of the building , at the intersection, and in similar places ...

            For the first time officially on these crosses, after the war, Batistow wrote in his book around 1970.


            Regards
            Jarek

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              #21
              Interesting papers .
              500 pieces would mean one core die ... and how many actually survived ?
              Those Germans who escaped would not have taken it home and those captured would not have worn them either .
              Might be more frames yet but these 2 cores show minor differences .

              Douglas
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                #22
                Sanyas examples looks like a 55 frame - frame seams original - but when was it made ? A certified original is needed .
                The frame from post 1 - I am wondering about ?

                Douglas
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                  #23
                  Um, okay, they were to be scattered about....did they think the Germans would pick them up and be sad? Or wear them? Or think "Oh my God, I'm a bad person, I better surrender"? What the heck - IF they were actually produced back then - was the intent???? I would imagine a Russian carrying an EK of any type would be frowned upon, the Germans I would imagine would be pi55ed off that the Russians were insulting an honored award.

                  I just don't see what the purpose of these would/could have been.

                  best
                  Hank
                  Unless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
                  ~ Dan Hampton, Viper Pilot

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Hank C. View Post
                    Um, okay, they were to be scattered about....did they think the Germans would pick them up and be sad? Or wear them? Or think "Oh my God, I'm a bad person, I better surrender"? What the heck - IF they were actually produced back then - was the intent???? I would imagine a Russian carrying an EK of any type would be frowned upon, the Germans I would imagine would be pi55ed off that the Russians were insulting an honored award.

                    I just don't see what the purpose of these would/could have been.

                    best
                    Hank
                    Maybe if you were born in the east and lived in the east you would have looked at these things a little differently ... but that's a pointless discussion and a bit off topic.

                    Regards
                    Jarek

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                      #25
                      +1
                      Originally posted by boch_62 View Post
                      maybe if you were born in the east and lived in the east you would have looked at these things a little differently ... But that's a pointless discussion and a bit off topic.

                      Regards
                      jarek

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