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**Mike H.** · 09-13-2002, 01:38 PM

Wow!

I didn't think we'd ever find out who made these. Leave it to you, Gordon!

Thanks for sharing.

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 02:35 PM

Dear Gordon,

What happened with this cross? Isn´t it a bit strange that the 800 silver didn´t develop the least bit of a patina?

Is this Godet stamp known (I haven´t seen it before)?

Cheers, Frank H.

**Rich G** · 09-13-2002, 02:51 PM

I could be way wrong here but something about this EK1 is not right...

I think this is a new fake. Just a hunch.

Could someone show the back of another Schinkel EK1 to compare the hinge assembly?

Rich

**Andy Mac** · 09-13-2002, 03:10 PM

Pin Assembly

The pin assembly is the same as, on every 'Shinkel' type I have seen or owned. I currently only have one, and will gladly post pictures when I have the means to do so. the cross looks great to me, but I have never seen one with makers marks before.

Regards
Andy Mac

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 03:21 PM

Well Andy, it also has the same hinge assembly like every FAKE Schinkel EK1 I know. Here are again two Schinkel fakes that I recently posted.

1) It seems strange to me that this EK, being 800 silver, didn´t develop any patina unless it was VERY recently VERY excessively cleaned (and Gordon doesn´t do that sh*t, now does he?) or isn´t silver at all.

2) I also have never seen THAT Godet maker´s mark.

3) When Gordon posts something and remains quiet at the same time, he is up to something....

Cheers, Frank H.

Attached Files

19593641255_ekohne1.jpg (39.4 KB, 627 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 03:23 PM

reverse 1

Attached Files

19593641250_ekohne2.jpg (34.5 KB, 632 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 03:24 PM

FAKE cross 2

Attached Files

2178123623220_ek1schinkel.jpg (22.9 KB, 615 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 03:26 PM

reverse second FAKE.

Attached Files

217812362323_ek1schinkel1.jpg (20.7 KB, 611 views)

**Andy Mac** · 09-13-2002, 03:41 PM

Pin assembly

Frank, You could well be right, I wrote I have only seen this type of assembly on Shinkel Crosses, I have not seen one with a different assembly. I have also seen the same type of assembly on Flatform later types does that mean they are all fakes?
From the Pictures the cross looks good, and I agree about the makers mark I have never seen it either.

Regards
Andy Mac

**Chris Boonzaier** · 09-13-2002, 03:59 PM

Is it my imagination...or....
Look at the back of all 3 crosses.
Take a look at the arm on the right.
Isnt the bottom curvr different to the top curve...... non symetrical

**Frank Heukemes** · 09-13-2002, 04:05 PM

That´s a good observation, Chris!

@Andy Mac: No, of course there are also originals with this type hinge, you misunderstood me. I wanted to prove that there ARE fakes that also have this hinge. A Schinkel EK1 that has this hinge is not automatically a good one. That was the essence of my words.

Cheers, Frank H.

**Andy Mac** · 09-13-2002, 04:22 PM

Frank,
I should guess your right, if you were to make fakes of this type of cross, it wold be pretty dumb not to copy the pin assembly.
Chris,
I think You deserve the title of Eagle Eye!

Regards
Andy Mac

**Gordon Williamson** · 09-13-2002, 04:47 PM

Frank,

You are right on the mark! I posted this earlier then went out for the evening. I was wondering whether it would have been "outed" by the time I returned.

The worrying thing is that they have got the iron core 100% correct. The numeral shape and size matches exactly an original I have but as Chris rightly pointed out, the non symmetrical and misshapen edging is a giveaway. The hinge design is OK, but I have only ever seen narrow pins with that type hinge, never a wide pin like on the copies.

By the way, I know several advance collectors who think nothing of cleaning silver frames, (and I mean careful cleaning - not buffing or polishing) so I would never judge a piece on lack of patina. In fact I don't hold to the idea that dark silver patina looks attractive, pertsonally I think it is ugly. When was the last time you visited a museum and saw a military units Regimental silverware all black and tarnished ?
Whilst I would hate to see anything abbraisive being used on silver, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a piece just because it had been cleaned of tarnish. Its all a matter of personal choice.

By the way Mike, Godet did in fact make Schinkel EK1s. I had a mint piece some years back, a genuine vet obtained "sleeper" in its case with outer card carton, with the Godet address etc on the side of the carton.

Gordon

**Chris Boonzaier** · 09-13-2002, 05:26 PM

I had always thought this kind was from S+L, the pin should be quite a bit thinner though and the hinge slightly different..
I no longer have mine so I cannot post it, but the ones pictured are indeed dangerous.

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Maker Marked Schinkel EK1

Maker Marked Schinkel EK1

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