Re-painting the Crosses

[Hauptmann109]

So how shamed would one be if one added some touch ups to the Swastika that lost all its paint on an Iron Cross? How much would it depreciate in value?

[Jelle M.]

A repainted cross has the definition of 'messed with' It will affect the value enormous, minus 50%.
It won't make the cross more beautiful.
Compare it with a 75 year old lady full of plastic surgery, that's no improvement either.. Just leave history as it is

[Dansson]

That's more a loss in history than anything else.

Depending on maker, class and variation it can variate, but I can say that a repainted/partially repainted cross in order to "touch it up" has lost quite much of it's value in my eyes and would be in most cases not on the way to my collection even if the price would be fair.

To cut all that short:
Desirability would drop dramatically even if the price would be dropped and reached a very fair price.


Best regards,
Daniel

[Hauptmann109]

Fair enough, me myself I don't like the light brass showing, especially if newly chipped and was wondering if a touch up would be that bad. I understand that one can do what one wants with their stuff though. Other option would be to use a water based paint that comes off with a damp cloth bringing it back to it's original state if one wanted to sell it, would be just as "harmful" as applying a sticker to cover the swastika.

[Dansson]

Fair enough, me myself I don't like the light brass showing, especially if newly chipped and was wondering if a touch up would be that bad. I understand that one can do what one wants with their stuff though. Other option would be to use a water based paint that comes off with a damp cloth bringing it back to it's original state if one wanted to sell it, would be just as "harmful" as applying a sticker to cover the swastika.

If you don't like it, sell it and buy a better one. Simple as that.
But don't start to mess around with it.

[jmcm]

Thats like painting a car with a brush!

[Tor]

Re-painting the Crosses

In my opinion a worn cross will have much more historical value than those never awarded. So for me repainting will be a "not wanted". I would much more like to have an awarded 100 than a perfect not awarded one. (MM just as an excample)


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[Eklipse]

Thats like painting a car with a brush!

I agree.

I you don'like it, don't buy it (or sell it as is)...in my opinion, it's better not to mess with an original iron cross.

But if anyway you do it (just for for retouching a small scracht), use a black marker pen, not paint...I've seen it, but I never did it with my iron crosses.

It's completely different with fakes...that's an oportunity to experiment an even to disassemble them carefully with a torch...yes, I've done it. Well, in fact some of the disassembled iron crosses in Dietrich/George book are Floch copies (see page 42 and page 46, and again page 443 were it is called "Austrian fake").

[Hauptmann109]

Marker, no, it gives a purple look in the end. I do a lot of scale modelling, I've touched up other things before (not medals) and when I'm done, nobody can tell that someone touched it.

Many of you here collect the battle worn look pieces, I'm always looking for as mint as possible items, no matter what it is. Just my personal preference.

[juoneen]

Did you say light brass showing? yes it does hurt the valuemost definitely.
Believe it or not some cores were made to resist salt corrosion, and are hard to find. The brass peeking through helps show it is one of those and actually makes it more valuable.
Honest wear proves a cross was actually worn, and although some collect mint crosses in the packets, you cannot make a worn example new again by painting.
The first lesson in this hobby , if you want to do it right is to learn to not be bothered by keeping items as found.
Some people just can't seem to leave their hands off collectibles when it is the easiest thing in the whole world to do.
If you want to do something productive , clean out your car of all the Mcdonalds wrappers and dog hair , clutter and old drink cups from the fast food places you frequent,using a leaf rake or open both doors and use a blower to blow it all out the other side first to get the foot high pile knocked down to where you can use a vacuume to get the small stuff.
Then go wash your car, windex the windows inside and out, wax the paint on the outside too after taking it to a car wash .
Then head for your bedroom with rubber gloves and pick up all the underwear you've thrown all over, make your bed...and while you are at it, fold and hang up the bathroom towels for once and amaze the ones you live with who liken you to livestock if you are that type of person, and have an epiphany, but be lazy about refurbishing TR items.
If an items condition bothers you when you have a chance to buy, don't, and why ask if you refuse to heed the good advice . Makes the ones who are trying to help not want to do it again if you refuse to listen, or, just wait for the best example to meet your requirements from the get go, and develop ediquette only the old timers have learned the hard way about leaving things as found who have tenure .
This is a lesson you can take to the bank, and will redeem you with close aquaintances who keep pulling out their hair because you can't clean up after yourself. After that you can think about the hair in the drains you keep leaving .

[Hauptmann109]

First I don't have a car anymore since I moved to Switzerland, I got a first class pass for the train, clean and I don't have to clean it. And my car before was immaculate FYI.

Anyway, I'm not disregarding other's advice, I'm just asking an throwing all the options out there. As for restoring other items, yes I've done it, but mostly frame work, metal signs, such as a late 1800s locomotive GM sign that was sand blasted and crudely painted yellow.

Anyway, restoring certain items its actually part of some historian's jobs, otherwise certain pieces just deteriorate. I understand that this is not the case with a EK1, however one can still ask as I do this as a part time hobby and it's something I enjoy when I have time, which is actually something that I don't have a lot of considering I have a family to look after.

[Hauptmann109]

While I'm here, what about rust on some pieces, not talking so much about EKs but some other medals the rust is really bad on one part, is acceptable to gently remove the rust as must as possible?

[Eklipse]

With rust in general there are three ways (and the mixes of them):
1. Leave it. It will grow under the surface. Control the temperature and humidity to retard it.
2. Stop it, with oil or wax. With blades and guns it is ok, but with an iron cross it will affect the shine and colour of the black painting.
3. Remove it, mechanically or chemically.
Whith the iron cross there is a problem, over the iron there is a layer of original black paint. Usually is better just a light cleaning (soft brush, and sometimes water with soap and drying in an oven at 100○C) trying to preserve the paint. If it is just a point of rust, a trick to clean it is to use a sharp pencil point. A good job is when the iron cross seems completely untouched.
In case of severe damage it is a matter of decision, to preserve risking alterating the original finish, or to leave untouched with the risk of self-ruining the item.

[juoneen]

Thanks for appreciating the anecdotes, but if one is a certified trained restoration expert, then you are correct on the types of items you related about, although if one is a trained expert , training must be done by those with much experience , not just speculation.
It has always peeved me that historical WW1 aircraft in the smithsonian were totally disassembled , wire and skins thrown out, and then refurbished by employees who destroyed the historical items I would have rather visited left as they were in the day and not any interest to me any longer , as they may as well just built a copy , and so I no longer want to pay admission to see restorations, but originals. This song here always remains the same due to the misguided who do more harm than good in constant distruction instead of caretaking things for future collectors.
My point in all seriousness is if a relic is a relic, its always going to be a relic. Yes even joan rivers paid the price for her addiction to plastic surgery instead of leaving herself alone .....so again I reiterate to you , to stick to buying only items that do not need work and now with a family the word is synonymous with sacrifice. So congrats on that, but I still try anyway to all who continually ask such advice , my experience is they really don't want advice, but validation, and are still going to do what they were going to do regardless, and I would rather they didn't .
I guess the hard way is the best lesson of all as those lessons are the only ones remembered, and we all have scored items and said"If they would have only left this alone" think of what it would have been worth.

[Chet Sowersby]

Speaking only for myself, my collecting standards would render a repainted cross almost worthless. If you are unhappy with it why not just go buy one that better suits you as another member mentioned? Cripes, there are thousands upon thousands of these things available on the market.

Chet