EK1 vaulting, good or bad?

[sengchee]

That 6. EK1 is hand certainly vaulted .... just in this case it is minor vaulting so the seams have not split yet . !

Douglas

The quality of steel in the 30s and 40s are much better than those available nowadays.
Is very difficult for one to bend the 4 Axis of symmetry to such degree of accuracy on older crosses.
Unless he is Superman.

[Douglas 5]

Sengchee:
Can we get a sharp picture of the centre at the same angle like this one please .
Need to rule out something .
And the frame is not steel ..... Ni-Cu alloy - still hard but better to work with .

Douglas
image_4709091.jpg

[sengchee]

Sengchee:
Can we get a sharp picture of the centre at the same angle like this one please .
Need to rule out something .
And the frame is not steel ..... Ni-Cu alloy - still hard but better to work with .

Douglas

Yes! Sir.
Thanks for your help.
I will work on it.

[sengchee]

Sengchee:
Can we get a sharp picture of the centre at the same angle like this one please .
Need to rule out something .
And the frame is not steel ..... Ni-Cu alloy - still hard but better to work with .

Douglas

As per your request, here are the photos.

[sengchee]

[/QUOTE]

As per your request, here are the photos.

[sengchee]

Some more photos

[swjXE]

The quality of steel in the 30s and 40s are much better than those available nowadays.
Is very difficult for one to bend the 4 Axis of symmetry to such accuracy for older crosses.
Unless he is Superman.

Many years ago when I first started collecting, I bought a EK1 with the paint stripped off of it and decided to restore the paint. I figured I might as well vault it if I'm going to paint it, so I took my time and bent the arms in small slow increments measuring as I went. It wasn't a steep radical bend, it came out really nice and looked just like the crosses in this post. It just really isn't that hard to do, but please don't do it to your cross, if you crack the paint you'll be hating life!

[sengchee]

Many years ago when I first started collecting, I bought a EK1 with the paint stripped off of it and decided to restore the paint. I figured I might as well vault it if I'm going to paint it, so I took my time and bent the arms in small slow increments measuring as I went. It wasn't a steep radical bend, it came out really nice and looked just like the crosses in this post. It just really isn't that hard to do, but please don't do it to your cross, if you crack the paint you'll be hating life!

Thanks for your good advice. I really appreciate that.
But for All the 4 points on the iron cross to sit nicely without a gap in the recess of a box is almost impossible if vault by hand.
Moreover, no 2 previous owner / soldiers for these crosses will ever think alike to vault their crosses with the same angle of accuracy.

[swjXE]

Thanks for your good advice. I really appreciate that.
But for All the 4 points on the iron cross to sit nicely without a gap in the recess of a box is almost impossible if vault by hand.
Moreover, no 2 previous owner / soldiers for these crosses will ever think alike to vault their crosses with the same angle of accuracy.

I'm glad yours was done nicely. I've seen some that were not done evenly on all arms and some that were only vaulted on the side arms. All it takes to do a decent job is patience and attention to detail, but again please don't try this at home! I personally have only seen one 1939 EK1 that I believed to be factory vaulted, it was a cased screwback and was beautifully and deeply convex.

[sengchee]

[QUOTE=Douglas 5;n11681135]Sengchee:
Can we get a sharp picture of the centre at the same angle like this one please .
Need to rule out something .
And the frame is not steel ..... Ni-Cu alloy - still hard but better to work with .

Douglas


FYI. Ni-Cu alloy will never shine or radiate with such among of brilliance under strong light.
Only Nickel Silver can do that.

[swjXE]

I was looking at my post WW1 Prinzen EK1 and it's vaulted (radiused) not only on the sides of the cross arms, but also on the ends of the arms. I have a vaulted 1914 EK1 marked L/11 that is also vaulted (radiused) on the end of the arms. Perhaps this should be the test for a factory vaulted cross?

[Douglas 5]

Sengchee : From what I can see your 6. EK1 is -only- silver plated and coated with lacquer .
The arms are only bent and not vaulted in any shape or form . A PKZ issue cross made lets say from late 42 - Fritz Zimmermann would never had made vaulted .

German Silver and Nickel Silver are same German Silver.jpg .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

swjXE -- a name is easier to use :
A) Yes vaulting is different ... and is "even rounding" of the medal from the centre to the out side edges along the centre line of the arms .
B) Full vaulting same as above with arms vaulted cross wise .

Douglas
Reg vaulting 1.jpg Picture 022.jpg Double vaulting.jpg

[swjXE]

Thanks Douglas for doing a better job at making my point. Hopefully sengchee will now understand the difference between hand and factory vaulted.

[sengchee]

Douglas 5 and swjXE I really appreciate your help and effort in taking the time to answer to my queries pertaining to our "vault" EK1.

For the last 2 days I have checked and went through some of the crosses produce by this firm "6." Fritz Zimmermann (not to confuse with the other Zimmermann) on some of the collectors forum and I found the followings:-

1. I noticed that whether the firm markings "6." is on top or middle of the needle pin, ALL of their crosses are flat and not vaulted!
I was wrong!

2. Whether the hook an eye at the reverse of the crosses are facing right or left, they are not vaulted either!

3. As to the steel frame properties on our EK1, I have tried polishing with a fine polishing cloth (ONLY on the frame but not the reverse and the needle pin). And it shines really bright against natural light (Please see photos below - Before and After ).
Now, I ve doubts over here.
Does it mean to say that if our crosses are made of Nickel Copper, it will still shine with brightness after polishing?
Could it be make of Nickel Silver instead?
If Nickel Silver will be so much harder!

4. I really like the factory vault with fine roundings on all 4 frames on some of the rare EK1.
Now, I know what is Factory Vault.
Thank you so much for your enlightenment both of you !
By the way, is there another form of factory vaulting like that of our crosses?

Finally, after the research which I have done for the last few days, I must conclude that our ( me and Avenger ) 2 crosses were rather "unusual".
As what you all have said before could it be that our crosses are being "tempered" by someone using bare hands to vault?
But why on these 2 crosses with the same firm markings?
Why not on other firms with these high degree of skills and accuracy?
Could it be that our crosses are done by the same person?
I'm still puzzling over this matter ????.

Have a nice weekend!
Be safe, observe social distancing and remember to wear mask together with your loved ones!

Thanks everybody in this forum!