my first DKiG comments please

[Stephen Stout]

It looks like a good cross, but has been cleaned unfortunately.

[RKarum]

Has This German cross the typical flaw at 11 o' clock position on starburst? I find the cross not convincing..

Not sure what flaw you are referring to. Yes this has been heavily cleaned over time (not by me) and I accept that when I trade for it.

Many here have given it an OK rating so can you give more detailed information as to what to look for in the "flaw" so I can identify it or not. I will take a photo of that area for further documentation for all to have.

Thank you.

[Nicola.M]

Hi,
Fabrizio is talking about this flaw

the photo isn't mine but taken from the forum.

[RKarum]

I see what you're saying about the flaw

Here are two pics of the 11 o'clock position from two different views. The cross I have does not have the flaw mentioned.

So now my question is...without this flaw is this a bad GKiG?

[AndyC]

Has This German cross the typical flaw at 11 o' clock position on starburst? I find the cross not convincing..

That flaw you find on Zimmermann crosses, should it also be on a 134 ?


Andy

[fabri-online]

The 134 German cross is exactly the same one but marked 20. Because made by Zimmermann or at least with all same parts.
So the starburst needs the flaw showed before in the 11 o clock position to be an original one.
As sayd I see a cross close to an original but not a match.
In my opinion pics well done, straight view, clear and with a natural light could solve

[AndyC]

The 134 German cross is exactly the same one but marked 20. Because made by Zimmermann or at least with all same parts.
So the starburst needs the flaw showed before in the 11 o clock position to be an original one.
As sayd I see a cross close to an original but not a match.
In my opinion pics well done, straight view, clear and with a natural light could solve

But early Zimmermanns don´t have that flaw right?
I don´t say that this is a early one.

Andy

[RKarum]

So than the way I am to understand this discussion is that the DKiG that I have, 134 (Klien) cross is a fake and made to look like it was worn?

[adren]

Is it commonly accepted that all Klein German crosses are made by zimmerman parts and all must have the flaw? And no exceptions are known?

I am not 100% expert so just asking.

Best Regards,

Adren

[fabri-online]

The early Zimmermann too has the flaw already showed.
All the wartime Zimmermann DKs has the flaw.
That is also showed and demonstred in the Maerz book.
I dare not to say that DK is fake just is not conving (for me).

[RKarum]

The early Zimmermann too has the flaw already showed.
All the wartime Zimmermann DKs has the flaw.
That is also showed and demonstred in the Maerz book.
I dare not to say that DK is fake just is not conving (for me).

Now the seed of doubt has been planted as to one member not being convinced that this is right because of the lack of the know flaw, there have been some who think its good. Any other comments?

I am not feeling real good about the cross now myself and before I contact the forum member I got the cross from I just need to have all the proof.

[adren]

Is it possible that there is so much dirt in the cross that the flaw is simply not visible?

I am not advocating for you to clean it, but the cross overall is pretty dirty.

There are better experts on this forum that might say whether there are any other red flags other than the missing flaw.

Best Regards,

Adren

[fabri-online]

RKarum, I think that actually you can just receive opinions and no one real certainty.
My advise is take new but clear pics, straight views, a close up uf date than ask help to Dietrich and other DK collectors.

[RKarum]

RKarum, I think that actually you can just receive opinions and no one real certainty.
My advise is take new but clear pics, straight views, a close up uf date than ask help to Dietrich and other DK collectors.

I think you are correct. I will have to research the piece but I think that to much time has passed in the dealings with the party I received this from.

My picture taking skills are not the best but I will try. I think that Mr. Dietrich lives in my state of Michigan and hope that he will attend the small show that is being held the weekend of Oct 23/24 in Kalamazoo. I will try to contact him whit pics to his WA account.

By no means do I want this post to end. If someone has opinions please add to this post.

[Dietrich Maerz]

From what I can see from the photos I don't think this is a fake. Why would somebody go through all this hazzle and hit on all pints the original criteria but not on the flaw?
By the way, when enhancing the photo I think I can "see" traces of the flaw. Something seems to be there ...

Dietrich

PS: I will not be in Klamazoo but you can always send the cross to me for in hand inspection.