Bronze Spanish Cross w/swords (on estand)

[François SAEZ]

ok, but what's the judgement??
ben

No judgement here, but opinions:
Most don't know
Some think it is a fake
Fewer, think it is ok

I belong to the third part

[Brian S]

Thanks Francois, what maker is it?

[François SAEZ]

I can't name him, but not (in my opinion) one of the names you gave (the known ones).

[Brian S]

Thanks Francois. I thought I knew what it was not and wish now to know what it is. As Frank says it certainly is not the most obvious sweep tail back examples.

One thing that's always bothered me is that Juncker has proven to change designs, could they have been an early manufacturer with a 'first' design? I would think it would be maker marked as are most Juncker badges.

But on this one, it's not the B&NL that some say is fake.

Well if you have Francois' endorsement that's a mighty endorsement.

I prefer known pieces as these have been so heavily faked.

Certainly the better photos provided make the piece look nicer than in original photos.

[François SAEZ]

...Well if you have Francois' endorsement that's a mighty endorsement...

Clearly, no endorsement nor definitive judgement from me - only an opinion among others and nothing more.

... and I invite others to give their opinion based on the new pics, in order to help the seller as I think this is why the thread waas moved here, no?

[Gene]

I can't fault this piece, and to me it looks good.

[Brian S]

I can't fault this piece, and to me it looks good.

Which maker?

[JAMES.M]

Which maker?

Can you list the different makers of the Spanish Cross, please.

Cheers,
James

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Seems I was travelling when this thread started! Missed out on some fun as usual. Anyway, my first impression from the first few images (although blurry) was that it was a nicely worn bronzed tombak example. Nothing set off any alarm bells for me, having a similar example in silver from a German LW vet's (undocumented) grouping - I liked it and if I was looking to buy I'd have snapped it up - I'm still very tempted anyway (open to offers Ben??). Try faking that wear to the bronze finish, the sexy bend to the main pin and the typical bent sword tip. Absence of known maker is not an issue for me. Imo these unmarked examples are 10x safer than highly faked Juncker examples. This cross (unlike the LW Para Badge) imo just doesn't deserve the flak that's been heaped upon it in this thread, although I readily admit to not being a SpanX expert.

Regards
Mike K

[jacques]

Can you list the different makers of the Spanish Cross, please.

Cheers,
James

Hello,
the makers (who marked their crosses) I know are:
- Juncker
- Godet (diamonds )
- Meybauer
- Deumer
- Steinhauer
- Foerster & Barth
- Schickle Otto
- Zimmermann
- Mayers
- B&NL (suspicious)
Unknown makers for "900" marked crosses.

Many spanish crosses are unmarked and currently for the main part it is really impossible to attribute them to any above maker. They differ from the marked original known exemples.
Concerning Ben's cross, I see nothing wrong. I know other samples that look close to this one and that I believe OK. As It has been said, very fine copies are existing today and it becomes hard to determine.
Even though I own several SC, I'm certainly not an expert, and this opinion is just my opinion, no more no less!
jacques

[François SAEZ]

adding that some makers used 2,3 .... different marks

IMO, a MM doesn't make a Spanish Cross but this is only my opinion - the same goes with the complete understanding of contracts, sub contracts .... most we simply don't know.

[JAMES.M]

Hello,
the makers (who marked their crosses) I know are:
- Juncker
- Godet (diamonds )
- Meybauer
- Deumer
- Steinhauer
- Foerster & Barth
- Schickle Otto
- Zimmermann
- Mayers
- B&NL (suspicious)
Unknown makers for "900" marked crosses.

Many spanish crosses are unmarked and currently for the main part it is really impossible to attribute them to any above maker. They differ from the marked original known exemples.
Concerning Ben's cross, I see nothing wrong. I know other samples that look close to this one and that I believe OK. As It has been said, very fine copies are existing today and it becomes hard to determine.
Even though I own several SC, I'm certainly not an expert, and this opinion is just my opinion, no more no less!
jacques

How about FR SEDLATZEK?

Cheers,
James

[ben bijker]

I want to thank everyone for his contribution to this thread.


Sorry Mike, no longer available...


Best regards,
Ben

[jacques]

How about FR SEDLATZEK?

Cheers,
James

I don't too much about Sedlatzek. I never had one in hand. Detlev shows one in his book , but if you look closely, the cross is also marked "CEJ 900". So Sedlatzek was in my opinion a sub contractor.
Concerning B&NL, I'm not sure they made spanish crosses, I only know copies.
I personnally own 4 crosses of which I can't identify the manufacturer .
For sample, I don't know how a Godet cross looks like (except the gold with diamonds).

jacques

[JAMES.M]

I don't too much about Sedlatzek. I never had one in hand. Detlev shows one in his book , but if you look closely, the cross is also marked "CEJ 900". So Sedlatzek was in my opinion a sub contractor.
Concerning B&NL, I'm not sure they made spanish crosses, I only know copies.
I personnally own 4 crosses of which I can't identify the manufacturer .
For sample, I don't know how a Godet cross looks like (except the gold with diamonds).

jacques

Thanks for the reply Jacques! I believe I had sent you a photo of mine at one time. It has Sedlatzek's maker mark and address, but there is no CEJ. I've seen medal bars with the same company name and address as well. Something to ponder!

Cheers,
James