EK1 or KC Miniatur question and help ?

[Peter J.]

Dietrich, I don't see a controversy here, but merely an account of facts from Doehle's publication. To produce alternative scenarios for combos NOT accounted for in his book doesn't seem like your usual style :

"The Imperial combination has two equal sized EKs. For me it would not make any sense to portrait the EK1 bigger than the EK2. And Dr. Doehle shows the RK bigger than the two equal sized EKs."

The Imperial combo also features a large/small EK (also in the sales catalogues), even though you don't find it logical. In the same catalogues it's apparent that the 16mm EK stickpin was offered as an EK1.

"Why would somebody portrait two EKs as one bigger and one smaller? That is not even the case in Dr. Dooehle book."

Why would somebody portrait two Imperial EKs as one bigger and one smaller? We can hardly exclude everything not accounted for in Doehle's book, nor read it as the Bible. Same thing with the LDO-list, the alleged 9mm versions of the RK are, as we both know 10,7-10,8mm.

As a side-note, the really exciting news on the mini scene was presented a few weeks ago by Gary B. Still the lack of response didn't surprise me

cheers
Peter

[Dietrich Maerz]

The rules for miniatures before 1919 are not relevant in this discussion. I showed two Eks of WW1 made during the Third Reich with equal size to show that this was the rule during the Third Reich, just as Doehle shows with the two EKs of 1939.

But why don't you tell us why there are clearly 10-11 mm miniatures Iron Crosses produced which were used as a Knights Cross (single and in combination - as shown), but are nevertheless considered an EK1? Even Dr. Doehle shows the 11 mm version as a Knights Cross.
That is all the controversy in my thinking. I do not pretend to have the answer nor do I think that anybody has one.

Dietrich

PS: Regarding the beautiful piece of Gary's - what is there to say? Come to the SOS and watch them the whole day. There were a lot in Klessheim, with and without swords, cased. They are just marvelous! And Gary knows that, too!

[Peter J.]

WHAT! I thought it was late over here So what are you saying Dietrich, St&L and P&L broke the law?

As for your question, I'll give it a try. The slightly larger size (10-11mm) was adopted in order to differentiate it as a KC, next to the two 9mm EK's. Who did ever say anything about this larger size being an EK? Nor I think I've got all the answers, but I'll do my best to know what is being discussed.

You're right about Gary's catch, we've seen those before. If you can't appreciate the significance of the document and the various approaches that can be made due to the content, well I just shut up then.

cheers
Peter

[AlikN]

Here is the one I have, and it doesn't look that a small ring on top was added later.

[AlikN]

more pics

[sanya13]

IMO this the piece same manufacturer made
what do you think about it ?

[AlikN]

IMO this the piece same manufacturer made
what do you think about it ?

Yes, it is the same, here is the thread in post #20 I did some comparing.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=254024&page=2

[sanya13]

really,thanks that for shared this

Yes, it is the same, here is the thread in post #20 I did some comparing.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=254024&page=2

[mp409mm]

I do not know if this of any help to this thread, but here is mine pin ( if it is genuine )
the big cross is 8.96mm and the small one is 7.23 high. It is made of enamel coating. Sorry poor scan.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yhoh3r283...hompx5sSa?dl=0
Alf.

[sanya13]

Hí Alf this is a WW1 and not WW2

I do not know if this of any help to this thread, but here is mine pin ( if it is genuine )
the big cross is 8.96mm and the small one is 7.23 high. It is made of enamel coating. Sorry poor scan.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yhoh3r283...hompx5sSa?dl=0
Alf.

[mp409mm]

1914 EK1/EK2 combinations were very commonly made with the EK1 bigger though.

Opps I saw this post and ........
Alf.