S&L SC in silber

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

I don't know why Leroy's cross, just marked "4" would be an automatic fake because it doesn't have the L/16 mark. The forensics of the cross itself look just as good as any L/16-marked example with regards to die characteristics, reverse hardware setup, neat soldering, finish, etc.

And more importantly, if you consider the souvenier boards as the real, true snap shot of what was made by S&L during the war, then the only spanish crosses that should be considered wartime are those only marked "4". None of the ones found on the souvenier boards were marked L/16

Tom

[Legion Condor]

Hi guys,

I don't know why Leroy's cross, just marked "4" would be an automatic fake because it doesn't have the L/16 mark. The forensics of the cross itself look just as good as any L/16-marked example with regards to die characteristics, reverse hardware setup, neat soldering, finish, etc.

And more importantly, if you consider the souvenier boards as the real, true snap shot of what was made by S&L during the war, then the only spanish crosses that should be considered wartime are those only marked "4". None of the ones found on the souvenier boards were marked L/16

Tom

Hi Tom,

no one says that the piece of Leroy is a copy. the piece which I have shown with only 4 is a copy. My piece has a much poorer quality than that of Leroy.

Greeting LC

Hans Günter

[Leroy]

Regretably for all of us, most of the "barter" or "souvenir" boards ever produced were taken apart and their contents scattered many years ago. This is why, when an "intact set" is found (as was the case several years ago) they provoke such highly interesting discussions here. Even the multiple board set discussed here, however (sold at auction in England and later acquired by eMedals in Canada) has now been broken up and scattered. Fortunately we had some documentation by means of photos taken at the original auction by a member here and then, later, from the eMedals site.

It is critical that we keep in mind that the SK's from the board we are discussing here are only one small part of a much bigger picture. Who knows what we would see if we had a hundred sets of boards to look at?

[Norm F]

And more importantly, if you consider the souvenir boards as the real, true snap shot of what was made by S&L during the war, then the only spanish crosses that should be considered wartime are those only marked "4". None of the ones found on the souvenir boards were marked L/16

Tom

The key word there is "made" by S&L during late wartime, not "sold" by S&L during the war or necessarily assembled in wartime. Clearly S&L components, individually made during the war, but put together sloppily and not marked L/16 for retail. Whether assembled during wartime for display purposes, rejected pieces or post-war assembly is a finer distinction but in any case they're evidently crosses that weren't meant for retail in wartime.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Maybe even a piece of the bridging period of PKZ and LDO.

For Leroy's "4" marked original to be a bridging piece one would have to assume that the marking of EK1s with PK numbers pre-dated March, 1941 (since these are EK1 stock pins).

If on the other hand it was just a rare missed L/16 stamp then the PK number marking could have begun any time after that.

If the solely "4" marked originals like Leroy's were more common then that would support the first scenario but it seems vanishingly rare, more in keeping with the second scenario.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Legion Condor]

Hello,

such a piece as shown by Leroy, I have never seen before. And I've seen a lot of really. I'm looking for any distributor lists on the weekend to Spain by crosses. I have seen none.

It is very rare.

Gruß LC

Hansgünter

[Norm F]

Hello,

such a piece as shown by Leroy, I have never seen before. And I've seen a lot of really. I'm looking for any distributor lists on the weekend to Spain by crosses. I have seen none.

It is very rare.

Gruß LC

Hansgünter

So then we're back to the conclusion that Leroy's badge is a rare original which accidentally missed out on the L/16 stamp, not a transitional piece between PK and LDO marking.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Legion Condor]

It could be both, one possibility may be, and the other also. I do not know, no one can know.

But there is a 100% original, all the signs are there.

As I said before. The piece that I have shown you what you have even the 4. does not have such a quality as Leroy his pieces.

[Leroy]

I have never thought of my cross as being particularly "rare", but thank you.

If the factory had such pieces in stock at the end of the war (and we don't know how much they had of anything - although I personally think it was a lot), would it have pre-marked them with "L/16" before it knew what use would be made of them?

[Legion Condor]

Hello,

I think there are not many Spain crosses the end of the war have been from the manufacturers.

Why? We must not forget that is the Spanish Cross is no EK1, no ISA, no PTA, etc.

There have not been used so many pieces. There were always produced very small series for sale. It has saved from the end of 1943 material. It was produced at the badge that was important.

Gruß LC

Hansgünter

[Brian S]

So to my original question. What makes an S&L a wartime cross? No one seems to be jumping on the one on the eStand. Why not?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=783700

[Thomas Durante]

So then we're back to the conclusion that Leroy's badge is a rare original which accidentally missed out on the L/16 stamp, not a transitional piece between PK and LDO marking.

Looks like its not that rare after all, here is another one without the L/16 stamp....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=783700

Tom

[Nordmark]

So to my original question. What makes an S&L a wartime cross? No one seems to be jumping on the one on the eStand. Why not?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=783700

Because pieces by this maker have been talked to death on this forum...

[Brian S]

So what's the definitive, "here is what makes a "4" piece wartime." ???

[Thomas Durante]

Because pieces by this maker have been talked to death on this forum...

It IS a discussion forum