Unknown RK Maker

[Dietrich Maerz]

I agree....a bloody mistake as it happens trying to post and catalogue thousands of pictures when 'others' have their self serving hands in the pot!!!!

Now this time I don't get it! Are you suggesting somebody slipped the category h) in his book without him knowing?

Dietrich

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Folks... folks.... don't we have enough to speculate about with long-gone factories and jewlers? Detlev is alive and well and living in Germany with an address and phone number listed right on his site. You want to know what he meant? Ask him!

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Very teenage rumoresque of me to say it so bluntly, but cie le Vies.

Brian! Nice touch there, so very subtle

I see you changed your mind. Well, that was to be expected I supposed.

[Dave Kane]

Authors of Militaria based books have been doing it for decades to sell their wares...I can only draw from the past when it comes to print material!!!


If dealers offer the 'excuse' that their 'staff' messed up...do you really think that DN really pondered, analized and approved every page going to print?

Even Williamson ( I believe ) screwed up on the DKiG 134 something or other!!

You don't know that it was proposed, rejected or otherwise and even then ended up in the pages and filled in by some functionary.....

Brian has the right idea...but even better than that the Author should POST!!!

[Dietrich Maerz]

I just did send an e-mail to him. I guess he will post his answer here.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Reputation and study at stake.....

[Detlev Niemann]

Good morning Dietrich, thanks for sending an e-mail to me. The cross on page 490 is not a Juncker KC.

regards
detlev

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Detlev,

Thank you very much for your answer! I openly admitt that from the pictures in your book I was absolutely convinced that this is a Juncker, not only because of the remnants of the cross hatching but because another tell tale sign that is typical for Juncker.. I saw some differences at the outer points but this still could not steer me away from Juncker.
I will go back to my study and do a more thourough investigation to learn about the differences. Anyway, I'll buy this type of coss anytime for Euro 4,000.- if you know what I mean....

Okay, but here comes the next question:

- what makes this cross a genuine pre-45 cross? Directly form a vet with solid provenance, I guess. Then you also know the date of award?

- how many 'other' manufacturers do exist in your opinion?

- why is the pricing for 'other' manufactuerers substanially lower than 'normal' ones (not compared to the 'en vogue' Juncker), i.e. compared to S&L for instance. Is it just market frenzy? Real is real, isn't it?

Please help this thread going because I think it is worthwhile to learn more about the 'grey' areas of the hobby!

Thanks,

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Dietrich here's the date comparison, certainly some differences. I have to admit I haven't the subtle differences of the dates memorized so the frame completely told me Juncker.

[Brian S]

And the inner bead comparison. Nothing I would have normally upon looking at the top cross have assumed was fitting to the core.

[Dave Kane]

....Granted it is NOT a Juncker!


However, is it something ATTEMPTING to be a Juncker??? It shows many of the 'hints' we look for in Juncker crosses albeit they aren't exact!

If this was simply another period 'maker' WHY the attempt at immitation right down to one of the lesser known but extremely important 'landmarks'???

[Dave Kane]

Bottom r/hand corner....Lazy 2

[tom hansen]

Hey- great thread. I just saw this and it is very interesting. Sorry, but when I look at Detlev's non-juncker juncker cross, the only difference I can see is in the date on the core. Otherwise the beading looks good to me. What am I missing here? On some of the worn junckers crosses I have, the beading is worn at the corners to be able to tell a difference if there was one.

[Brian S]

Tom I was just going to add does anyone here say the frame is not a Juncker frame? I can't see any difference. Could this be an early/late Juncker core to now unknown? I don't have a pic of the fake good Juncker but I don't remember it being this good.

[Biro]

Also, someone utilising Juncker sourced frames, together with their own cores, would be technically construed as an 'unknown' maker, no?

Marshall