Klein & Quenzer A.G.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Let’s see if we can get to the bottom of this maker, or at least make some strides and come out with some further information.

This is what we know for a fact –

- K&Q manufactured all sorts of awards for the Wehrmacht, and was a major provider of both Iron Crosses and Knights Crosses.

- Sticking to Knights Crosses, we know that we have a lot of photographs of awardees.

- We know that the factory was in business until 1985.

That’s really all we know for a fact.

- We theorize, but do not absolutely know, that they may have been an increase in awards of this K&Q toward the end of the war.

- We know what originals look like, but here like everything else we depend on the word passed on to us. Granted, this is good for me, this not fact.

- There are surrounding rumors that the dies for this makers were passed down or sold (but the same can be said for other makers).

So what’s the best way to actually study these? Let’s see if we can get some pictures out, I know that we have a lot of people with them around and it would be helpful if we could come up with some characteristics of the award beyond the obvious fat donut to study and examine, and finally get to the bottom of this.

[Airborne Nut]

A member on here recently posted a picture of his EK1's enamel under a very powerful microscope. Surely all dies from that time frame were hand made and as such would have microscopic Fingerprints that they may pass into the metal upon stamping? I am talking beyond what the eye can see. So I did not want to use the "Die Flaw" word.

I am not a metallurgist but the frames of the RK's were made of a realtively soft metal no?

So why not examine them this way. Picture it like the rilfing left on a bullet when fired. No two are alike and in this case if would just be on a very hard to see scale.

Could this be a method of investigation to possilby aid in this research?

Again I do not have any RK's but am just trying to shed light on some overlooked (Possibly) method of investigation. I am not making any claims that there even are any "Fingerprints left behind" just suggesting it as a possible tool to use.

-Shane

[gregM]

This might be a dumb idea BUT if the company was in business untill 1985, then
there are still people around who worked there. Is there anyone of our members
who might live near where the factory was and could maybe contact former employees. I realise that some of those companys do not like to talk about their
wartime activities but individual employees might be more willing to talk to someone .

Just a thought,
Greg

[Dave Kane]

Good idea! These to my knowledge have not been 'taken apart' as Juncker or S&L have. Possibly because they are SO obvious in the immediate points we look at.....odd beading of the frame and the thick ring.

I've never studied the K&Q cross so will be a looker and learner....

There are two stories that have always 'irked' me however when explanations are offered for the many mint examples we see. All sides should be discussed and as I have seen so often in this hobby....'stories' often accompany new 'finds' or 'hordes'.....SS marked leather goods, tropical camo helmets and so on!

Here are the 'stories' as I recall....

At war's end K&Q threw out all of their cased Knight's Crosses but they were recovered by some enterprising young man and eventually sold off.....you see the 'dumping' offers explanation of why they were not in cardboard shipping cartons!

Story #2: Found in an abandoned supply train by GI's and numbering in the hundreds.....eventually these hundreds of new, mint crosses were brought to the US. This one however, can't address the issue of the cardboard cartons as easly as the other because these allegedly were being shipped....nor is there the type of now (legendary) story of the Castle attached to this super find.

Run with it boys as I would like to get all the info. available on these crosses...maybe even get one eventually!

[Sebastian Bianchi]

These are all good ideals, nothing is out of the questions.

So how many of these "popular" RKs do we even have here? If they're so prevalent, we should have a few, no?

[DaveJ]

Here is mine, From TRD in 1989, I will say then it was spendy, but of course by todays standards only shy of 4 cased EK1s

[Marc Garlasco]

My buddy in CT just got this one YESTERDAY and just came over for pizza and a look. He asked me to post the pics. It had a Niemann COA (FYI).

[Marc Garlasco]

More:

[Marc Garlasco]

I have the RK for the night , so let me know if you want other angles...
Marc

[Peter Wiking]

Flak88.
Icredible photos. Thanks alot. Congratulate your friend to a nice RK set.

Cheers.
Peter<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_688889", true); </SCRIPT>

[Marc Garlasco]

Peter,
You gotta love what a good 5MP camera will do - I even cut the images by 50%!!!
Marc

[Dave Kane]

Thanks Marc! No sleep for you tonight.....



Harry...will you attempt to replicate Marc's #5 picture....specifically, I'm curious to see how (your) '57 ring is finished.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

I would post more photos but right now all I have are file photos (and it's getting dark at 4:30pm, much before I'm home from work). Most of them are artsy type and the dry front-back type needed for these purposes.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

another view

[Dave Kane]

Seba, try for the same as I asked of Harry!