Ritterkreuz, knight's cross... Real or fake??

[Viriathus]

Hello to all Forum Experts!


I've seen the below RK for auction in Stuttgart, Germany, with a start price of €1500 and an estimate of €2250.

This is the lot description:

Germany (1933-1945) Knights Cross of the Iron Cross

Description

Germany (1933-1945)

Knights Cross of the Iron Cross.

Blackened iron core silver frame hallmarked "800" also the ring.
53 x 47 mm238 g.

Period made piece from the so call "over-sized" EK2.

Deutsches Reich (1933-1945)

Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes.

Geschwärzter Eisenkern silberne Zarge Rahmen mit "800" Punze ebenso der Ring.
53 x 47 mm238 g.

Zeitgenössische Fertigung aus einem EK2 in der sogenannten Übergröße.

Condition - II

I sent the following question to the auctioneer:

Dear M. Seiler,


Is it the authenticity of this Ritterkreuz fully guaranteed?

Thank you for letting me know and best regards,


Jose

And I got his response a few hours later:

Dear Jose,
yes - unless otherwise stated the items are period!
All the best M. Seiler


Please let me know your thoughts about this cross. Is it good or not, in your opinion?

Many thanks in advance and all my best,


Jose

[Danny70]

Hello,

This cross IS a genuine period übergroße EK2 that someone has messed with by removing its suspension ring and adding this new RK style suspension system.

A period made conversion?.... IMO, I highly doubt it.

Without any solid provenance, to me, this is just a messed with übergroße EK2.
Price range?
A good, untouched übergroße EK2 usually goes for approx €450, but a damaged one?.... It's up to the buyer whether he believes the story or not.
But as it stands at the moment, that's all you have - a story.

Anyway, it's NOT a genuine, period made RK, even if the story is true.
It is a replacement piece made from a genuine EK2.

Just my thoughts.
Regards - Danny

EDIT:

Notice the lack of patina on the top of the cross where the ring has been added - this does not indicate a period conversion to me.

A quick google image search reveals that the same cross has gotten around a bit....

[Viriathus]

Hello,

This cross IS a genuine period übergroße EK2 that someone has messed with by removing its suspension ring and adding this new RK style suspension system.

A period made conversion?.... IMO, I highly doubt it.

Without any solid provenance, to me, this is just a messed with übergroße EK2.
Price range?
A good, untouched übergroße EK2 usually goes for approx €450, but a damaged one?.... It's up to the buyer whether he believes the story or not.
But as it stands at the moment, that's all you have - a story.

Anyway, it's NOT a genuine, period made RK, even if the story is true.
It is a replacement piece made from a genuine EK2.

Just my thoughts.
Regards - Danny

Hi Danny,


Thank you for your post, I had also some doubts regarding its authenticity...

I will pass on it!

Very best regards,


Jose

[Viriathus]

A great find!!!

Just for fun


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...68#post6600468

[hkusp40]

Hello,

This cross IS a genuine period übergroße EK2 that someone has messed with by removing its suspension ring and adding this new RK style suspension system.

A period made conversion?.... IMO, I highly doubt it.

Without any solid provenance, to me, this is just a messed with übergroße EK2.
Price range?
A good, untouched übergroße EK2 usually goes for approx €450, but a damaged one?.... It's up to the buyer whether he believes the story or not.
But as it stands at the moment, that's all you have - a story.

Anyway, it's NOT a genuine, period made RK, even if the story is true.
It is a replacement piece made from a genuine EK2.

Just my thoughts.
Regards - Danny

EDIT:

Notice the lack of patina on the top of the cross where the ring has been added - this does not indicate a period conversion to me.

A quick google image search reveals that the same cross has gotten around a bit....

I agree. -Ger