V.early '57 RK by K&Q

[tom hansen]

Okay Andy, I can accept that.


So you are saying that there is no data or information one way or another to support the contention that the juncker shop was bombed and the dies destroyed? And further, the Gordon Willamson just pulled this thought out of thin air when writing his book? If so, I am somewhat shocked that this "myth" has been perpetuated without any evidence.

[Luftm40]

Well, there may be some kind of factual documentation to show that the factory was bombed, but I have never seen it. I believe Williamson's ASSUMPTION that the dies were destroyed stems from Juncker's postwar use of different RK dies on their restrikes. But this is an ASSUMPTION. Perhaps Juncker sold the RK dies right after the war..who knows. Apparently Juncker used their original dies for some other badge/medal restrikes, so why were some dies destroyed and others spared? Without some kind of primary source documentation, one theory is as good as the next. That is my point.

[Dave Kane]

Oach! Richard...why not be a good lad and edit your post afterall it does seem a bit petulent and personal! I KNOW you can do it as you so often have in the past...

Then maybe we can stick to a worthwhile discussion!

[tom hansen]

Well that is good information , Andy. I had asked that very question a few months ago relating to the dies OTHER than RKs made by juncker. I would imagine, unless engulfed by fire, that some of the dies used by the firm would still be around. But if they did use the dies for other badges, and had not sold THEM, why would they have not used the RK dies, if they had them, and why would they have sold only the RK dies, but not the other ones? It seems like too many ifs, and as we know, if the gloves do not fit, we must acquit! (Doesn't it just make you sick to hear that phrase again)

[Rich G]

Oach! Richard...why not be a good lad and edit your post afterall it does seem a bit petulent and personal! I KNOW you can do it as you so often have in the past...

Then maybe we can stick to a worthwhile discussion!

Dave,

I think the word you're looking for is petulant (with an 'a')

[Dietrich Maerz]

The whole discussion about pre/post war, re-strike, and what have you all comes down to - as Andy says - provenance. Only with a dead solid provenance (which exists with Junckers, K&Q, S&L, Zimmermann and Schickle) do we know how a cross has to look in detail.

The only thing that can be deducted from that fact when comparing or looking at a cross w/o provenance is that is (most likely = 95%) made by the same dies. We also can deduct whether it's early or late (die flaws, whether you like it or not...), BUT we cannot say WHEN it was made. We only can say, that with the S&L a non-flawed cross was made before a flawed cross and a heaviliy flawed cross was made befor a slightly flawed cross.

This process was prooven several time inside this forum with crosses and with the famous oaks. It is really that simple. Everything else is just personal believe.

Dietrich


P.S. : Dave, could you scan the german newspaper? Maybe there's something in the text.

[Dave Kane]

Dietrich a very loose translation of the text suggests that even after the Allies forbade the manufacture and sale of medals and badges etc. some in the Ruhr district took up the manufacturing of these items again and they could be openly purchased along with cigaretts at a well known local store.....items available for purchase were basic wehrmacht medals up to Oaks & Swords!

DM...check your Email!