Juncker 1st pattern 1st cl. Spange, opinions please...

[Robert P.]

Thank you once again for an excellent summation, Trevor. A little hand-filing and, wallah, an 'intermediate'.

Robert

[streptile]

Thank you once again for an excellent summation, Trevor. A little hand-filing and, wallah, an 'intermediate'.
Robert

I don't have Frank Thater's excellent EK1 book in front of me, but I do believe he shows a 2. Pattern with hand-filed datebox similar to this one (correctly described).

The 2. Pattern Juncker Spangen are rarer that the 1. Patterns (in both classes) by a huge margin, with tombak 2. Pattern Juncker Spangen being probably among the very rarest Spangen in the world. So why anyone would file the datebox of this stunning jewel to make it a 1. Pattern is beyond comprehension.

[Robert P.]

So why anyone would file the datebox of this stunning jewel to make it a 1. Pattern is beyond comprehension.

Pure ignorance.

Robert

[Jean-Claude]

Congratulations Robert!

Beautiful Juncker early 1st class spange; my favorite version! Ahhh...maybe one day....

Regards

JC

[Flemming]

Moreover, the idea that the datebox "evolved" from scalloped ends, to only minimally scalloped ends, to flat ends, is ridiculous on its face. It was scalloped, and then the design changed to flat. There is nothing "in-between," same as there is no "intermediate Schinkel."

If I remember correctly then I Think I might have a 2nd class Spange, that shows this kind of "semi" scalloped date bar.
I'll look, when I get some sleep, and then take some Marco photos of the date bar.
And ofc, I will also show the full front and back.

/Flemming

[streptile]

In my opinion that's a 2. Pattern piece. If the datebox is indeed scalloped (can't quite tell) then it's been done by hand.

The 1. Pattern Junckers all had outer-wing veins only. The early 2. Patterns were the same: outer-wing veins only. Finally, the third type had full feather veins and always carried an L/12 mark, and the same pin we see on that piece. So this could not be an "intermediate" piece because the very first types after the 1. Pattern all have outer-wing veins only.

Here's an old chart I just updated to show what I mean. I'm showing 2. Class Spangen here but the exact same rules and observations are true of the 1. Class Junckers, so it's equally applicable.

The "intermediate" piece we see above is the third type on this chart. The last piece Juncker made during the war.

[Robert P.]

Any one of those would fit nicely in my collection, Trevor.

Robert

[Flemming]

I'll show some Pictures of what I belive to be 2 1st pattern Juncker 2nd Class Spange, and 1 2nd Class Spange that has a "semi" curved date bar.

I will be posting 8 pictures.

First picture is a shot of the "semi" curved between what I belive is 1st pattern curved datebar Juncker Spange. All 3 seems to be tunic removed.

Thank you for looking
Flemming

[Flemming]

Next is a shot of the "semi" curved datebar and head.

It is a shame that it shows a lot of Wear.

/Flemming

[Flemming]

NExt is a full shot of the front of the "Semi" curved and a Juncker

/Flemming

[Flemming]

The last two pictures is of the 1st pattern Juncker, showing the datebar and head.

Hope this will help.

/Flemming

[streptile]

Hi Flemming,

That nice piece is thought to be a Meybauer, and you're right that the datebox is not very scalloped.

However, I don't know why it's relevant to the discussion. It's just a different design by a different maker... unless I've missed the point?

[Flemming]

A few more of the "semi" curved.

/Flemming

[Flemming]

Hi Flemming,

That nice piece is thought to be a Meybauer, and you're right that the datebox is not very scalloped.

However, I don't know why it's relevant to the discussion. It's just a different design by a different maker... unless I've missed the point?

I wanted to show more of these strange "semi" curved date bars.

Moreover, the idea that the datebox "evolved" from scalloped ends, to only minimally scalloped ends, to flat ends, is ridiculous on its face. It was scalloped, and then the design changed to flat. There is nothing "in-between," same as there is no "intermediate Schinkel."

[Robert P.]

For those interested here are some stats on the 1st pattern that started the thread...

Robert