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Juncker 1st pattern 1st cl. Spange, opinions please...

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    #16
    Thank you once again for an excellent summation, Trevor. A little hand-filing and, wallah, an 'intermediate'.

    Robert

    Comment

      #17
      Originally posted by Robert P. View Post
      Thank you once again for an excellent summation, Trevor. A little hand-filing and, wallah, an 'intermediate'.
      Robert
      I don't have Frank Thater's excellent EK1 book in front of me, but I do believe he shows a 2. Pattern with hand-filed datebox similar to this one (correctly described).

      The 2. Pattern Juncker Spangen are rarer that the 1. Patterns (in both classes) by a huge margin, with tombak 2. Pattern Juncker Spangen being probably among the very rarest Spangen in the world. So why anyone would file the datebox of this stunning jewel to make it a 1. Pattern is beyond comprehension.
      Best regards,
      Streptile

      Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

      Comment

        #18
        Originally posted by streptile View Post
        So why anyone would file the datebox of this stunning jewel to make it a 1. Pattern is beyond comprehension.
        Pure ignorance.

        Robert

        Comment

          #19
          Congratulations Robert!

          Beautiful Juncker early 1st class spange; my favorite version! Ahhh...maybe one day....

          Regards

          JC

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by streptile View Post

            Moreover, the idea that the datebox "evolved" from scalloped ends, to only minimally scalloped ends, to flat ends, is ridiculous on its face. It was scalloped, and then the design changed to flat. There is nothing "in-between," same as there is no "intermediate Schinkel."
            If I remember correctly then I Think I might have a 2nd class Spange, that shows this kind of "semi" scalloped date bar.
            I'll look, when I get some sleep, and then take some Marco photos of the date bar.
            And ofc, I will also show the full front and back.

            /Flemming

            Comment

              #21
              Originally posted by streptile View Post
              In my opinion that's a 2. Pattern piece. If the datebox is indeed scalloped (can't quite tell) then it's been done by hand.

              The 1. Pattern Junckers all had outer-wing veins only. The early 2. Patterns were the same: outer-wing veins only. Finally, the third type had full feather veins and always carried an L/12 mark, and the same pin we see on that piece. So this could not be an "intermediate" piece because the very first types after the 1. Pattern all have outer-wing veins only.
              Here's an old chart I just updated to show what I mean. I'm showing 2. Class Spangen here but the exact same rules and observations are true of the 1. Class Junckers, so it's equally applicable.

              The "intermediate" piece we see above is the third type on this chart. The last piece Juncker made during the war.
              Attached Files
              Best regards,
              Streptile

              Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

              Comment

                #22
                Any one of those would fit nicely in my collection, Trevor.

                Robert

                Comment

                  #23
                  I'll show some Pictures of what I belive to be 2 1st pattern Juncker 2nd Class Spange, and 1 2nd Class Spange that has a "semi" curved date bar.

                  I will be posting 8 pictures.

                  First picture is a shot of the "semi" curved between what I belive is 1st pattern curved datebar Juncker Spange. All 3 seems to be tunic removed.

                  Thank you for looking
                  Flemming
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Next is a shot of the "semi" curved datebar and head.

                    It is a shame that it shows a lot of Wear.

                    /Flemming
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #25
                      NExt is a full shot of the front of the "Semi" curved and a Juncker

                      /Flemming
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #26
                        The last two pictures is of the 1st pattern Juncker, showing the datebar and head.

                        Hope this will help.

                        /Flemming
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Hi Flemming,

                          That nice piece is thought to be a Meybauer, and you're right that the datebox is not very scalloped.

                          However, I don't know why it's relevant to the discussion. It's just a different design by a different maker... unless I've missed the point?
                          Best regards,
                          Streptile

                          Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

                          Comment

                            #28
                            A few more of the "semi" curved.

                            /Flemming
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Originally posted by streptile View Post
                              Hi Flemming,

                              That nice piece is thought to be a Meybauer, and you're right that the datebox is not very scalloped.

                              However, I don't know why it's relevant to the discussion. It's just a different design by a different maker... unless I've missed the point?

                              I wanted to show more of these strange "semi" curved date bars.

                              Originally posted by streptile View Post
                              Moreover, the idea that the datebox "evolved" from scalloped ends, to only minimally scalloped ends, to flat ends, is ridiculous on its face. It was scalloped, and then the design changed to flat. There is nothing "in-between," same as there is no "intermediate Schinkel."

                              Comment

                                #30
                                For those interested here are some stats on the 1st pattern that started the thread...

                                Robert
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

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