Calling all S&L RK holders

[Dave Kane]

Has anyone ever seen a 'flawed' 935/4 cross?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dave,

regarding to the (accepted?) theorie that S&L made a perfect duplicate die to produce the flawless 4/935 (and let the run of the flawed crosses continue parallel till they become very very bad) there should be none. Or better be none...

Dietrich

[Harry]

Gents,

The reason why I posted this thread originally is because on examining several S&L crosses (I have 3) I noticed a feature on the outer frame which I could not trace referrence to in previous threads. On the obverse of the 9 O'clock arm, and again repeated on the reverse of the 3 O'clock, ther is a small 'blip' in the silver frame, on the outer polished flat part of the frame. This appears on S&L 1939 crosses with zinc cores and unmarked frames, flawed 1939 crosses, and 1957 flawed crosses. It does NOT however, appear on 800 marked frames with iron cores, or 935 - 4 marked crosses. It shows clearly on my initial pic. attached to this thread, but I will attach pics of the feature on other crosses here. It appears as a raised area, almost like a buckling, of the silver to give a proud spot 7.25mm up from the lower corner of the arm. I can be seen on the 2 '57 flawed crosses posted earlier in this thread by Peter, and on the on posted by Mike K.

[Harry]

another cross..

[Harry]

and another..

[Harry]

another from a dealer website.....

[Harry]

It can also be seen on a cross listed by Kai Winkler, but I cannot re-produce the pic here. Below, however, is one listed currently on H. Weitze's site.

[Harry]

3 O'clock arm magnified......

[Peter Wiking]

This spot?

[Harry]

Now, my observations are as follows:

1. this 'blip' evident on the flawed 1957 crosses can be found on unflawed 1939 crosses, (but only those with zinc cores and/or unmarked frames) and flawed 1939 crosses.

2. It cannot be found on 800/800micro halmarked frames of flawless 1939 crosses nor on the 935 -4 marked '39 crosses

3. The die characteristics of the flawed 1939 crosses are identical to those of the 800 marked flawless crosses.

My questions are as follows:

1. Why is this 'blip' found on the supposed early crosses (i.e the zinc cored lighter crosses), not on the post 1941 unflawed crosses, only to re-appear again on the supposed late war flawed crosses and continue on into th 1957 series?

There will be more to this anon!

[Harry]

Exactly Peter!

Taking the pics at an angle shows the blip more clearly as it reflects the light at a different angle.

Best,

[Harry]

Listed today on D. Nieman, an S&L cross, iron core but unmarked frame - awarded in September 1942,much accompanying provenance, here is the pic cloe-up & enhanced of the 9 O'Clock arm:

[Rich G]

I have checked both my '800' S&L's and none have this 'blip'

Rich

[Harry]

Thanks Richard, none of Dave's has it either.

[Brian S]

I have checked both my '800' S&L's and none have this 'blip'

Rich

Careful Richard someone may quote you in another thread, steal your words.

Anyone noticing how contentious RK threads are becoming? You can't use other pictures from other threads within the forum? People's feelings are hurt by trying to learn what's going on with the S&L die history? It seems totally pointless to try to learn because someone will become a 'victim' if their cross is discussed.