German Cross in Gold - Zimmermann

[Brian Dentino]

I agree with you Tom. But all I am saying is that we should all keep our minds open to the possibilty? that there are authentic items out there that we do not yet know about. Again, this is coming from a "newbie" to the collection realm, but I hate to see an item thrown out because it doesn't fit the exact specifications of a known original.

[Si1964]

Firstly I must state that I am not that well versed in this area, but I have found this to be a very interesting and educational thread.

However, it would appear that a lot of this is it - isn't it, is based on the photos provided, and there still seems to be no conclusion. But as a sugguestion, as there are several of you guys in Ca, would it not be possible to meet up on a week end, handle one of these crosses etc and may then be able to draw a better conclusion???

[tom hansen]

Simon- There is a conclusion. The pieces posted deviate from the zimmerman original DKiGs. The wreath is different. An inconclusive situation is when there is data presented on both sides of the issue that is equally compelling. Here we have three odd pieces with no documentation of manufacture, compared with thousands of conventional crosses with all the same wreaths. I would not call that inconclusive at all- it is pretty clear cut.

[JRA]

Another one

Gentlemen,

interesting thread, here's another one for sale at Bill Shea:

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Medals/m016.htm

It also has the same 20 on the pin like H009291's DkIG.

Jeroen

[George Stimson]

Man, these things are reproducing like the Pod People!

[Peter Wiking]

Gentlemen,

interesting thread, here's another one for sale at Bill Shea:

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Medals/m016.htm

It also has the same 20 on the pin like H009291's DkIG.

Jeroen

Yes. Same type of 20 marking that is cut on top.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Philippe DB]

Man, these things are reproducing like the Pod People!

Only on your side of the pond George

KR
Philippe

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes. Same type of 20 marking that is cut on top.

So it's not a "one-time" mis-stamp, rather a regular occurence. How big are the chances of the same cut-off marking as a mis-stamp if you are using a 'full number' tool?

As it has been said before, this is very interesting but the past tells us that this thread is dead already...

- one cross at Bill Shea's site
- one cross at Jamie Cross' site
- one cross from Steve Wolfe (who had more at that point in time)
- one cross from Detlev Niemann with expertise (not prooven..)
- one from a Vet

Must be the real deal!! Gordon needs to add this for the next edition of his book and Detlevs catalogue is already not up to date anymore. Hey, living is learning!

Dietrich

[tom hansen]

Man, these things are reproducing like the Pod People!

I think the phrase more accurately should be "are being produced like the pod people".

[Frank Heukemes]

The question is: how can anybody who is able to produce and age such a convincing fake be stupid enough to put these pimples into the date?

Maybe, if you think about it long enough, it is quite clever indeed. The faker could have assumed that very versed collectors will find minutely different features anyway when comparing to accepted 20 DKiGs. It would be devastating for the fake to exhibit these differences for the KNOWN type of 20 DKig. But by deliberately stippling the date, this can now be declared as the long lost stippled date variant, which, quite logically does have some minor other differences.

Something is not ok here. For decades these have been lost and now we see a new one every minute? Come on, those who believe in it, make your logic work.

[Don D.]

I guess you could ask "Are they appearing now or have we finnally examined them to such detail that we are just now getting down to the nit picking points?" I think the answer will lie in some of the old collections. Can one of these be found in a collection where it has been for 20-30 years or more? If not then I think I'd pass on this new variation.
Don

[Dietrich Maerz]

There's another thing to be learned about this new "variant". It did not use the regular metal borders with even thickness but rather crude cut outs (late war problem???) and the complete swastika was not riveted to the plate but rather measured in by hand. How else could one explanin the markings which seem to make the alignment points and directions for the swastika? A nicley late war hand crafted specimen!

Dietrich

[tom hansen]

Damn, that Dietrich is good!

I believe that it may have been so late in the war that the Nixon administration was negotiating the surrender.

[Frank Heukemes]

Great observation, Dietrich. That late war touch (when the Germans had to make use of everything and all the skilled craftsmen had already fallen in Russia and the Normandy) make this variant even more desirable!

[Dave Kane]

Shameful!!!!

What is going to happen to this hobby when those who 'question' just go away in disgust??