GGF's Iron Cross 1st Class 1939

[levijean]

I am researching my great grandfathers Iron Cross medal. It is stamped 1939 and has a pin not a ribbon (so that makes it 1st class vs. 2nd class?). He fled Europe with his family in '38-'39 after Kristallnacht so I'm sure the medal was not given for service in WWII. Someone mentioned the 1939 medals were reissued to recipients of the Iron Cross in WWI? That could make sense for how he received the award. I'm just trying to understand the conditions for which the medal was issued...

[AndyC]

It sounds like a EKI 1914 for me.
If he get away 38/39 he couldnt get the EKI 1939



Andy

[levijean]

It sounds like a EKI 1914 for me.
If he get away 38/39 he couldnt get the EKI 1939

Andy

It is clearly a 1939 medal.

[streptile]

It is clearly a 1939 medal.

It is probably not your great-grandfather's cross then. Could it be another relative's cross that was kept within the family?

Can you show a photo? You can upload to photobucket or flickr, for example.

[streptile]

Someone mentioned the 1939 medals were reissued to recipients of the Iron Cross in WWI.

Also, this is not true.

[AndyC]

Mail a photo to me or Streptile and then we could post it here

Andy

[levijean]

I dont have a pic handy but it looks just like this

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&c...9,r:4,s:0,i:86

Its in the original case. The story is the medal got/kept him out of the concentration camp(s) until he fled.

On another website i read:

"In 1939, when the Second World War began because the Germans invaded Poland, the Nazi government re-issued the iron cross. It is somewhat larger and has a swastika (Hakenkreuz or hooked cross) in the middle. On the bottom the year 1939 is engraved. This cross was mailed to all holders of the first iron cross a few days after the invasion of Poland."

[streptile]

Hmm. Somehow your family story has gotten a bit skewed.

Was your great grandfather Jewish? Jews served and fought bravely in the German Army in WWI in greater proportion than they were represented in the overall population. Many were awarded the 1914 Iron Cross for their service to the Fatherland.

For a time, Jews who were veterans and especially those who had been awarded the Iron Cross were exempt -- officially or unofficially, depending on the particular law -- from some of the more heinous and criminal laws of the Nazi regime. This exemption allowed many to stay on in Germany relatively unmolested until quite late -- even up to the outbreak of the war (after that, no Jew was safe in Germany).

So, honestly, your story makes perfect sense -- except for the fact that the cross would not have been a 1939 Iron Cross, but a 1914 Iron Cross. There is simply no way your grandfather -- Jewish or Gentile -- would have been awarded this cross if he fled after Kristallnacht.

It may be that the story is accurate but the cross has been switched over the years?

[Don D.]

On another website i read:

"In 1939, when the Second World War began because the Germans invaded Poland, the Nazi government re-issued the iron cross. It is somewhat larger and has a swastika (Hakenkreuz or hooked cross) in the middle. On the bottom the year 1939 is engraved. This cross was mailed to all holders of the first iron cross a few days after the invasion of Poland."

Not everything you find on the net is correct, this being a prime example....

[streptile]

This cross was mailed to all holders of the first iron cross a few days after the invasion of Poland."

Yes, I can see how this is easily misunderstood. But the fact is that no one who earned the 1914 Iron Cross was reissued with a 1939 version.

Here is a 1914 Iron Cross 1. Class:

[AndyC]

If he was Jewish why should he have a EKI?
And also kept in a concentration camp(s) until he fled ??


Andy

[levijean]

Hmm. Somehow your family story has gotten a bit skewed.

Was your great grandfather Jewish? Jews served and fought bravely in the German Army in WWI in greater proportion than they were represented in the overall population. Many were awarded the 1914 Iron Cross for their service to the Fatherland.

For a time, Jews who were veterans and especially those who had been awarded the Iron Cross were exempt -- officially or unofficially, depending on the particular law -- from some of the more heinous and criminal laws of the Nazi regime. This exemption allowed many to stay on in Germany relatively unmolested until quite late -- even up to the outbreak of the war (after that, no Jew was safe in Germany).

So, honestly, your story makes perfect sense -- except for the fact that the cross would not have been a 1939 Iron Cross, but a 1914 Iron Cross. There is simply no way your grandfather -- Jewish or Gentile -- would have been awarded this cross if he fled after Kristallnacht.

It may be that the story is accurate but the cross has been switched over the years?

Yes he was Jewish and I believe he fought in WWI for Germany. Would it make more sense if he had stuck around closer to the start of the war? Maybe my dates are off.

[levijean]

The story is the medal either kept him out of the concentration camps or got him released once he was there.

[streptile]

Yes he was Jewish and I believe he fought in WWI for Germany. Would it make more sense if he had stuck around closer to the start of the war? Maybe my dates are off.

It would only make sense if he was Jewish and no one knew. I don't know of any stories of this nature, however, and it strikes me as highly unlikely. Also, in this situation, no cross would have been needed to keep him out of a camp, since no one would have been looking to incarcerate him.

Photos of your cross would help immensely. If the cross is authentic, we're talking about one thing. We could probably gauge the period the cross was manufactured to within a year or so. If the cross is fake -- as are probably 60% of them on the market today -- then we could surmise that the story is accurate but the cross was switched at some point.

The only potential version of the story that makes any sense to me is that he earned the 1914 EK1, which kept him safe for a time in Germany. After Kristallnacht he saw no future for himself and emigrated. Then, perhaps years or decades later, he may have picked up a 1939 EK1 as a souvenir of that dark chapter, which has now passed down to you through the family.

[Adam S.]

Also, this is not true.

I think he was referring to the spange to the iron cross. Which wouldn't fit with the explanation though.