GGF's Iron Cross 1st Class 1939

[levijean]

I will post a pic but it wont be for some time.

[Hank C.]

I will post a pic but it wont be for some time.

No hurry, most of us are here regularly.

Hank

[AndyC]

No hurry, most of us are here regularly.

Hank

Hehe

Andy

[LarryHW.]

The only other medal his grandfather could have recieved after World War I, was, I believe, the Hindenburg Cross. I do know of individuals like his grandfather getting the Hindenburg Cross around 1935, along with a basic award document.

It would only make sense if he was Jewish and no one knew. I don't know of any stories of this nature, however, and it strikes me as highly unlikely. Also, in this situation, no cross would have been needed to keep him out of a camp, since no one would have been looking to incarcerate him.

Photos of your cross would help immensely. If the cross is authentic, we're talking about one thing. We could probably gauge the period the cross was manufactured to within a year or so. If the cross is fake -- as are probably 60% of them on the market today -- then we could surmise that the story is accurate but the cross was switched at some point.

The only potential version of the story that makes any sense to me is that he earned the 1914 EK1, which kept him safe for a time in Germany. After Kristallnacht he saw no future for himself and emigrated. Then, perhaps years or decades later, he may have picked up a 1939 EK1 as a souvenir of that dark chapter, which has now passed down to you through the family.

[Inspector Krogh]

The story is the medal either kept him out of the concentration camps or got him released once he was there.

For those who are inclined to look, this topic has been long documented in Holocaust literature and research, previously in print and of course, now on the web.
From at least as early as the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 and as late as the Wannsee Conference of 1942, it was considered that some fashion of preferential treatment be accorded to Jewish or part Jewish men who were decorated veterans.
Whether or not these men received any such reliefs is unknown to me, but if so, the exemptions were in any event temporary in nature. They were rounded up and murdered in short order regardless of their decorations, once the Final Solution was implemented inside the borders of the Reich.
It is entirely plausible that levijean's grandfather was well aware of an exemption or relief he received from one of the onerous Nuremberg Laws by virtue of his decoration, and was wise (and fortunate) enough to be able to make his escape in the late 1930s.
As stated earlier, for those interested, there is much more to be learned than be supplied here in a few paragraphs.
Regards,
G.

[levijean]

Here are the pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5957251...7632200638595/

[steiner68]

Here are the pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5957251...7632200638595/

EK1 ww2...

[Hank C.]

EK1 ww2...

...and a very nice one, at that.

But - still doesn't make the story work. As amply stated above, to get a WW2 EK1, a soldier had to do WW2 EK1 actions. No amount of medals or awards in WW1 would get you the WW2 EK. You'd get the spangen, but not the EK.

So....it remains a mystery, I reckon.

best
Hank

[levijean]

On another website i read:

"In 1939, when the Second World War began because the Germans invaded Poland, the Nazi government re-issued the iron cross. It is somewhat larger and has a swastika (Hakenkreuz or hooked cross) in the middle. On the bottom the year 1939 is engraved. This cross was mailed to all holders of the first iron cross a few days after the invasion of Poland."

I just spoke on the phone with the man who wrote this. He was 15 years old at the time and remembers the occurrence quite vividly.

[CWP]

In truth, the indisputable fact that the 1939 version of the Iron Cross was not automatically mailed to recipients of the 1914 Iron Cross just after the invasion of Poland is borne out by masses of surviving original wartime documents and also decades of post-war scholarly investigation into the history of this decoration and how it was introduced and awarded. Not only that, but to make 1939 pattern crosses for the many thousands (or millions) of recipients of the 1914 decorations still living in 1939 would have been a huge effort that would have taken a lot of planning and mass production on a large scale, we know that this did not happen because we know how it was that the 1939 version of the cross was introduced. To reiterate, the history of the Iron Cross has been the subject of vast research and books have even been written about it by competent researchers. The 1939 pattern of the Iron Cross was awarded for actions in WWII and was not given out to those who had recieved the 1914 version for WWI service. The person who you spoke to is unfortunately mistaken, understandable when we are talking about memories of something that happened as a child more than 70 years ago. He may perhaps be remembering something related to the issue of the Hindenburg Cross which was given by the Third Reich to WWI participants. Although the story you have about this object is certainly intriguing, the object does not match the story and the history that is known and documented about this famous award.

[CWP]

In fact I did find the web site you mentioned at http://jbuff.com/c061208.htm and found it riddled with many misconceptions, mistakes and outright falsehoods. And that is putting it mildly, to say the least. I would strongly encourage you to seek factual and documented sources.

[Gew44]

On law of 1 September 1939 Hitler for reissued EK classes, very strange, decided to award the EK also the jewish people.... but this step was deleted very few time after.
The EKI awarded during the Poland invasion was the type called "Schinkelform", not the same who you have showed, as far as I saw.. and ever the cross was accompained with paper document called Urkunde.

[streptile]

Thank you for the photos of the cross.

I just spoke on the phone with the man who wrote this. He was 15 years old at the time and remembers the occurrence quite vividly.

That he is mistaken is as obvious as it would be, for example, if someone were to tell you that he had been awarded the U.S. WWII Victory Medal for his service in Korea directly from the hands of FDR in 1952. It's just not remotely possible.

I agree with Hank here -- an original cross by C.F. Zimmermann that did not end up in your family's possession in the way you've been told. I imagine it could well have an interesting history though, and it would be a valuable and rewarding subject for you to research. If you ever do get to the bottom of it, please fill us in

[streptile]

One more question about the cross itself:

If you open the pin and look on the underside, is there a mark there? It could be L/52, 20, or both. Thanks very much.

EDIT: Here is what it might look like:

[levijean]

One more question about the cross itself:

If you open the pin and look on the underside, is there a mark there? It could be L/52, 20, or both. Thanks very much.

EDIT: Here is what it might look like:

A very faint 20.