I have Always Loved Iron Crosses

[5tefan]

Sorry Douglas 5,

but what make you believe that this No1. flat head core is the 4th core?

Isn't it only a speculation?

[Douglas 5]

Stefan : As you will notice I do not lable anything with 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th ....... they are only core 1,2, 3, 4 or the same as saying core a, b, c, and d . .. for a total of 4 cores .
In the last post I only use the number 4 at the very end as a total for the Mayer cores to date . It is like saying a total of 4 apples with no indication/or referance which apple is the 4th one .
In that post I am guessing that the flat date EK2 core probably to be a possible second 1st or a 2nd core used by BH Mayer if you want a 'ranking' .
I am not sure and still awaiting a reply from Trevor .

Douglas
( Just Douglas - 5 is not needed )

[5tefan]

I make it short. I don't talk about the order what could be No.2 or No.3!

Is this flat head no.1 in your opinion a BHM core?

Stefan : As you will notice I do not lable anything with 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th ....... they are only core 1,2, 3, 4 or the same as saying core a, b, c, and d . .. for a total of 4 cores .
In the last post I only use the number 4 at the very end as a total for the Mayer cores to date . It is like saying a total of 4 apples with no indication/or referance which apple is the 4th one .
In that post I am guessing that the flat date EK2 core probably to be a possible second 1st or a 2nd core used by BH Mayer if you want a 'ranking' .
I am not sure and still awaiting a reply from Trevor .

Douglas
( Just Douglas - 5 is not needed )

[Douglas 5]

Well Stefan ... there is a good chance that this 'flat head' core in that EK2 could be a BH Mayer own made core .... I do not know and I never discovered it .
I am not sure , but I think it was Trevor who found and identified it ?? I cannot remember seing that core in any other makers frame ... maybe some one else has ?

Douglas

[grueni1208]

in the last pic I have seen the typical flaw on the frame, yes a Mayer cross. nice ! nice ! nice !

Which?

[streptile]

Hi Daniel,

Schön, von Dir hier zu hören.

I think Fabri must mean this flaw? In any case the frame is a Mayer frame.

[fabri-online]

yes, as Trevor indicates, that is the flaw.

[grueni1208]

Can you show me please a B.H. Mayer marked EK I with these flaw.
Maybe I have a L/18 marked EK I with these flaw in my database, but it's a bad quality pic and there are other flaws which are not to find on this "early" EK II.

If this EK II is a real early B.H. Mayer and if the "special" L/18 EK II (same frame like the 333 EK II fake) is a real B.H. Mayer, then B.H. Mayer must have 3 complete different core design's.
1. these early core design
2. classic B.H. Mayer core design
3. L/18 / 333er core design

I don't believe that B.H. Mayer used 3 complete different core designs.
We know that some maker's used more than one EK-tools (wear), but the core design was ever the same +/- (K&Q, Juncker).

[fabri-online]

I think it 's not important to find a marked Mayer to be sure when the beads design has a match with the marked ones.
2nd, the so called Sedlatzek EKs have this frame with a clear Mayer core, not a case.
so the one difference is that evident flaw, rare to find, I don't know why, maybe they repaired the die rapidly, not strange, we are in the 1940-41 I presume.

[streptile]

If this EK II is a real early B.H. Mayer and if the "special" L/18 EK II (same frame like the 333 EK II fake) is a real B.H. Mayer, then B.H. Mayer must have 3 complete different core design's.
1. these early core design
2. classic B.H. Mayer core design
3. L/18 / 333er core design

I don't believe that B.H. Mayer used 3 complete different core designs.

I agree!

I think they used only two. This one (1.) and the "classic B.H. Mayer core design" (2.).

I have seen this core (1.) in other B.H. Mayer EK1s.

[Cole Bush]

nice!

[Douglas 5]

After reading now that BH Mayer has only 2 core designs I went and dug out my early Mayer and retook new pictures ... found all the original pictures I had used for that chart to update/modify it as well . The newer camera made quit a differance .... and with other recent posted Mayer EK1s able to do a better comparison .
Using different referance features I have regrouped the original 3 EK1 cores (including mine) now into 2 common main cores and 1 unexspected new one , as the picture shows .

I would like to point out that the pictures only show up to now 'all' cores found in BH Mayer frames and does not indicate which ones were actualy produced by Mayer .

And if things were not chalanging enough do we not have 2 Mayer EK2 cores now as well ??? -- That would make a total of 5 used cores then . --

Referance is still made to the 'flat top' EK2 date as being Mayer's first core . Does that mean Mayer started with making EK2s only first and their EK1 came into production later ? ... or were both EK types being made at the same time -- just with different cores ?? What happened to this rare flat top core ... seamingly not used in EK1s .... did they have/own the die ? ... abandoned design or out-sourced core ??

Cheers , Douglas

[streptile]

In my opinion B.H. Mayer used two cores.

1. is the one we see in the EK2 that began this thread. This is the first EK2 I have seen with this core, but I think Fabri mentioned he's seen another one or two. I have seen two EK1s with this core. This core can be considered uncommon, and in my opinion it is the earliest:



2. is the standard Mayer core design we all know and love:



As for the other "Mayer" (below), it is unproven that this core (or this cross) is an authentic wartime example, so I don't count it:

[Douglas 5]

Well Trevor ... there are deffinatly more than 2 Mayer cores here .

The early silver frame Mayer I have with the yellow lacquer on the beading and extra thick pin and crimped anchor -- which has the round balls on the date ! The same as 'A" in the new comparison and a common used core .
It is original . More pictures on request .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Reverse and pin :

Douglas