Oskar Dirlewanger's Ritterkreuz?

[Sepp45]

Hi, like many questions I have about the whereabouts of famous Knight's Crosses, I now ask to anyone who may know: has the RK of Oskar Dirlewanger ever showed up in the market? Or is it in the hands of some private collector? Award documents perhaps?

I'm asking since, when he surrendered in 1945, he was wearing civilian clothes, with no visible medals or awards. No soldier stole his RK, just because he wasn't wearing it, right?


Dirlewanger, May 1945.



Any help, as always, is most welcome

Regards,
Sepp.

[Exile]

Not an RK I personally would be comfortable owning.

I hope it was lost or destroyed.

Matt

[Sepp45]

Not an RK I personally would be comfortable owning.

I hope it was lost or destroyed.

Matt

I'm with you on that one Matt, but history is history. Many Waffen SS RKT also had innocent blood on their crosses, but that doesn't stop one from appreciating the collecting effort of knowing the past.

I'm just curious with this one, because there's a lot of mystery surrounding the Dirlewanger brigade, and the horrible actions of this man.

Until this day I haven't seen even ONE document of Oskar Dirlewanger..

Regards to all!

[Sepp45]

One thing that lead me to this question was a photo I picked up on the Internet, about the museum of the Warsaw uprising, where it displayed many items, including an RK.


This RK, found at the archives of the Ghetto Fighter's House, in Israel. The Museum holds more than 300 items and archives of the Holocaust (mostly the fighters of the Polish Ghetto).

I immediately associated Warsaw with Dirlewanger.

But this is just me letting my imagination run free.

Regards,
Sepp.

[Bcarver]

I too would be interested in knowing. He had to either stay somewhere and change and left the items or just threw everything away.

[Sepp45]

I too would be interested in knowing. He had to either stay somewhere and change and left the items or just threw everything away.

Hi Bcarver, it is know that Dirlewanger was arrested while he was hidden on a remote lodge in the alps.

As said by Wikipedia: "Dirlewanger was arrested on June 1, 1945 near the town of Altshausen in Upper Swabia by the French occupational authorities while wearing civilian clothes and hiding under a false name in a remote hunting lodge – reportedly recognized by a former Jewish concentration camp inmate, and brought to a detention center. He died around June 5–7, 1945 in a prison camp at Altshausen, probably as a result of ill-treatment.[9][15][27][28] The exact cause of Dirlewanger's death is unknown, which over time led to numerous speculations. His death certificate issued by French authorities stated that Dirlewanger died on June 7, 1945 of natural causes. However, the certificate has been questioned, especially by the German historians.[29] According to Rolf Michaelis,[30] a Luftwaffe lieutenant Anton Füssinger (now deceased), claimed he was Dirlewanger's cell mate, and said that he witnessed Dirlewanger being gravely beaten by Polish guards in the French service on the night of June 4 to June 5, resulting in his death. However, no one else corroborated any of his statements, despite further research by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance. Contemporary Polish sources suggest that those guards could have been recruited from among former forced laborers, although a Polish survivor of the original Nazi camp at Altshausen stated that its former Polish prisoners did not know anything about Dirlewanger's death."

Furthermore, if you see the clothes he was wearing at the time of his detention, you'll notice that the pants are military issue, but the rest is plain civilian clothing.

My guess: he hid his medals or give it to some related family member.

[baldy1939]

Hi, like many questions I have about the whereabouts of famous Knight's Crosses, I now ask to anyone who may know: has the RK of Oskar Dirlewanger ever showed up in the market? Or is it in the hands of some private collector? Award documents perhaps?

I'm asking since, when he surrendered in 1945, he was wearing civilian clothes, with no visible medals or awards. No soldier stole his RK, just because he wasn't wearing it, right?



Regards,
Sepp.

Very interesting point you have raised Sepp

[VonPeter]

One thing that lead me to this question was a photo I picked up on the Internet, about the museum of the Warsaw uprising, where it displayed many items, including an RK.


This RK, found at the archives of the Ghetto Fighter's House, in Israel. The Museum holds more than 300 items and archives of the Holocaust (mostly the fighters of the Polish Ghetto).

I immediately associated Warsaw with Dirlewanger.

But this is just me letting my imagination run free.

Regards,
Sepp.

No relation to the topic but interesting that the ost medal has the olympic ribbon.

[Ludwig]

My guess is that he just got rid of them/threw them away.
Guess he knew what was coming for him and why risk anything just because of the awards?

[baldy1939]

while this subject has arisen , has anyone got or seen any award documents for anyone in the 36th Waffen SS Grenadier Division (Dirlewanger Brigade) ?

[Sepp45]

while this subject has arisen , has anyone got or seen any award documents for anyone in the 36th Waffen SS Grenadier Division (Dirlewanger Brigade) ?

Hi Baldy, the only items I got photos of are these two (and they can be easily found on the net):


Dirlewanger Collar


Dirlewanger Dog Tag.

Not much.. much of this brigade related was destroyed by former members I guess. To scared to be caught by the russians..

[Peter J.]

"No relation to the topic but interesting that the ost medal has the olympic ribbon. "

And you didn't recognize the other 3 obvious fakes?

cheers
Peter

[baldy1939]

not an original collar tab in that photo

[Sepp45]

not an original collar tab in that photo

Even more rare to find Dirlewanger Colla tabs then Not my field of expertise, sorry.

[VonPeter]

"No relation to the topic but interesting that the ost medal has the olympic ribbon. "

And you didn't recognize the other 3 obvious fakes?

cheers
Peter

Haha no i didnt, and I still dont.

Cant see much details in that pic but i assume it is the badges, and since I´m not a bagde-guy i probably wouldt know with ones anyway. But please tell, you made me curious.

/peter