Oskar Dirlewanger's Ritterkreuz?

[jacques]

Oskar Dirlewanger was lieutenant in Spain with the Légion condor and was attached to an Infantry Academy as instructor, platton leader and coy commander from May 37 to October 37, then from August 38 to May 39. This is why he was awarded the SC in silver. I read somewhere that he got some troubles there with the spaniards (alcool, brutality).

My friend French MacLean wrote a very good book about this man entitled "The Cruel Hunters". In it he did extensive research of German records. He concludes that he was beaten to death by the French shortly after the war. I do wonder how he received some of the awards that he is listed as earning. The Spanish ones are ones that I would particularly question. What unit was he in and what did he do and how did he get to Spain in the first place. I assume he had to be with the Heer which was a small minority of the German effort in Spain. He was well protected by Gottleib Berger who was his chief sponsor. He was certainly showered with medals and badges much beyond a person of his age and physical attributes earned through merit. Much of this man does not seem real almost like someone that was created to play a role. Like Himmler he also thought that he could elude capture by the occupation forces. One can only wonder what he could have been thinking.

[Tom B]

My earlier thread - Was not Dirlewanger related

My earlier post about a RKT who hid his RK in a house was in no way related to Dirlewanger's award. The RKT who hid his RK was an army Hauptmann I knew in the past. I posted this as a example of what COULD have been the fate of Dirlewangers awards. Got it straight now ? geeez

[muzrub]

Another grouping of historical importance, would be of a "Dirlewanger's clone": SS Obergruppenfuhrer Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski. He commited the same or worse crimes at Warsaw.

And he never faced trial.



He died in 1972.

Regards,
Sepp.

Looking at that pic- you just want to puch! him

[reichenberg]

'Looking at that pic- you just want to puch! him'

Nah - just grab all his awards and run like hell!

[sdesember]

Looking at that pic- you just want to puch! him

I remember seeing either his (von d. Bach-Z.) Degen or Ring Urkunde being offered for sale a few years ago on germandaggers.com. But, it was glued to a black page in a photo album.

[Nordmark]

I would not want the medals of a child molester. He was tried and convicted for raping a 13 year old girl and for molesting many other children.


He got what he deserved.

[Edgar Estrada]

I would not want the medals of a child molester. He was tried and convicted for raping a 13 year old girl and for molesting many other children.


He got what he deserved.

Who? I mean Erich von dem Bach or the other (Oskar ...).

Edgar

[mwliles]

He is referring to Oscar. Oscar was charged with having inappropriate sexual relations with a young BDM girl in a Nazi Party Automobile I believe it was somewhere around Karlsruhe. Of course this was before the war as he would not have time between winning all of these awards to have committed this heinous act. The point I am trying to make is today we have all of these fake Medal of Honor winners running around that most never served a day in the military. How do we know that Dirlewanger did not embellish his military credentials? Look at the picture of the guy at the start of the thread does he look like someone capable of winning these combat awards? I think not! Who would have stopped him from embellishing his own record? He somehow got by with so much and never was called on it. The Germans like the current US military had this problem. After the French Campaign an enlisted Soldier from the town of Frankenthal went down to the Tailor shop and bought an EK I and a RK and proceeded to wear it until he was caught. He attended a ceremony with the Gauleiter before his fraud was revealed. This incident led to the tailor shops not being able to sell an RK to anyone that came in the door with right anount of Reichsmarks. They now had to present their Soldbuch to buy an award.

[Edgar Estrada]

He is referring to Oscar. Oscar was charged with having inappropriate sexual relations with a young BDM girl in a Nazi Party Automobile I believe it was somewhere around Karlsruhe. Of course this was before the war as he would not have time between winning all of these awards to have committed this heinous act. The point I am trying to make is today we have all of these fake Medal of Honor winners running around that most never served a day in the military. How do we know that Dirlewanger did not embellish his military credentials? Look at the picture of the guy at the start of the thread does he look like someone capable of winning these combat awards? I think not! Who would have stopped him from embellishing his own record? He somehow got by with so much and never was called on it. The Germans like the current US military had this problem. After the French Campaign an enlisted Soldier from the town of Frankenthal went down to the Tailor shop and bought an EK I and a RK and proceeded to wear it until he was caught. He attended a ceremony with the Gauleiter before his fraud was revealed. This incident led to the tailor shops not being able to sell an RK to anyone that came in the door with right anount of Reichsmarks. They now had to present their Soldbuch to buy an award.

Yes, and very interesting. Thanks. Once long time ago I watched a Canadian movie about the time between the two WWs. There was a party and one guy was wearing the most hig British military decoration. His friends, who were soldiers, asked him about it, and he said he have got the medal in a shop. But according to the movie he was lying, he was just modest for in reality he was decorated with that medal.

Well, that is just a movie. Sorry about my English.

Edgar

[Ludwig]

He is referring to Oscar. Oscar was charged with having inappropriate sexual relations with a young BDM girl in a Nazi Party Automobile I believe it was somewhere around Karlsruhe. Of course this was before the war as he would not have time between winning all of these awards to have committed this heinous act. The point I am trying to make is today we have all of these fake Medal of Honor winners running around that most never served a day in the military. How do we know that Dirlewanger did not embellish his military credentials? Look at the picture of the guy at the start of the thread does he look like someone capable of winning these combat awards? I think not! Who would have stopped him from embellishing his own record? He somehow got by with so much and never was called on it. The Germans like the current US military had this problem. After the French Campaign an enlisted Soldier from the town of Frankenthal went down to the Tailor shop and bought an EK I and a RK and proceeded to wear it until he was caught. He attended a ceremony with the Gauleiter before his fraud was revealed. This incident led to the tailor shops not being able to sell an RK to anyone that came in the door with right anount of Reichsmarks. They now had to present their Soldbuch to buy an award.

What does a person, who is capapble of winning combat awards, look like?

[Oberst Rudel]

No relation to the topic but interesting that the ost medal has the olympic ribbon.

I think is the spanish cross with the olimpic ribbon...and also the Warshaw shield autentic???? My doubts...

[darkman666]

They now had to present their Soldbuch to buy an award.

after Ritter Drais do this, it was prohibited to sell the knights cross in an normal shop. if any KC owner needs an new one because he had lost it he can get an new for the Ordenskanzlei. No seeling in the normal commerce for all grades of the knights cross.

[mwliles]

In attempt to try to answer the question what does a man that earns medals looks like. Have you ever saw one of the big German dealers look through a stack of Wehrpasses? Have you seen how quickly they can go through them? They are looking for a couple of items. First they look to make sure the man has no Jewish connections (is either a Jew himself or married to a Jew) and then they look at the birthdate. The strict German universal conscription law means that some men are too old and some too young to have many accomplishments in the war and thus earn the rare decorations. If a man is born after a certain date (my guess 1920) he is not going to have the time to have an interesting military career. If I had paid more attention in school (and not spent all my time drawing pictures of planes with swaztikas on them dropping bombs on people) and knew statistics better I could develop a chart that would depict the year that the most RK winners were born in and then it should be a perfect bell curve going down on both sides. So when they see the date that the man was born in they know what opportunity he had to do great things in the war. On most Wehrpasses they do not need to look at more than the second and third page.

[MvR]

Dirlewanger

My English is far from good, but I will give it a try...

Can anyone tell me about these guys who where in the SS rgt Dirlewanger?

Helmut Wolf born in Karlsruhe in 1919
Xaver Julius born in Berchtesgaden in 1922

Probably the got the Eisernen Kreuz I Klasse in 1944. I do not have other information of them and cannot find anything on the internet.

Can anyone help me...

Thanx

Hermann

[Dennis GT]

RK and DKiG for non-combat/non-frontline roles as well. Generals earned them for leadership of units in combat.

Dennis