Early Godet EK1... strange pin

[streptile]

I agree. At some point Godet switched from their first, low bead-count frame (Danny's, Fabri's EK2 on the LEFT) to their later, high bead-count frame ("21" marked EK1 I showed, Fabri's EK2 on the RIGHT).

Also at some point they switched from glossy to matte paint.

So, a very general rule of thumb is:

• Early Godets have a low bead-count frame ("fat" beads) and glossy paint, and;
• Later pieces have a high bead-count frame ("thin" beads) and matte paint.

I bet there are some hybrids as I'd wager the frame and paint switches were not made at the same moment, but this remains to be demonstrated.

[Woolgar]

Here are my early Godet EK2 and EK1 to compare. ( I think the EK1 is early)

Nick

[Woolgar]

,,,,

[Hans Kondor]

( I think the EK1 is early)

Nick

Both they are Nick.

[Danny70]

Thanks everyone for all the information.

I wasn't aware that Godet had used a sculpted pin - the only one I knew of was like on Nicks cross.
I really think that this is a sculpted version - despite the distortion. I had originally thought along the same lines as Wik that it had been heated and stretched out of shape, but knowing now that there was a sculpted pin in use at some stage, I think this might be one of them.

I will try to post some more pictures this evening using my callipers to measure the width of the pin at various points. This could then be compared to the measurements of the one Douglas posted (they look very similar)

Thanks again guys.

Regards - Danny

P.S.
My friend also asked me for a rough valuation of this cross - he has no intention of selling but he wanted to know if he had overpaid for it - (I do not know how much he paid).
I have no idea what kind of price it would fetch given it's condition - Any ideas?

[Wik]

Thanks everyone for all the information.

I wasn't aware that Godet had used a sculpted pin - the only one I knew of was like on Nicks cross.
I really think that this is a sculpted version - despite the distortion. I had originally thought along the same lines as Wik that it had been heated and stretched out of shape, but knowing now that there was a sculpted pin in use at some stage, I think this might be one of them.

I will try to post some more pictures this evening using my callipers to measure the width of the pin at various points. This could then be compared to the measurements of the one Douglas posted (they look very similar)

Thanks again guys.

Regards - Danny

P.S.
My friend also asked me for a rough valuation of this cross - he has no intention of selling but he wanted to know if he had overpaid for it - (I do not know how much he paid).
I have no idea what kind of price it would fetch given it's condition - Any ideas?

I'm awful at values tbh...the thing about this one is the obverse is SOOOO nice. But alot of collectors will jump board when they see the catch. It doesn't look like an older, period repair I don't think. So that generally detracts from the value. But as I said...the obverse is imo!

[kriztof]

Beautiful cross Danny, one that I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection

Could these pins have been left over stock from their Imperial cousins, maybe slightly reshaped?


Chris

[Douglas 5]

As Trevor eluded to .... there are 'transitional variations ' ... and quite a few of them. -- not just 1 or 2 --- but many .
Combinations exist with :
a) Low and high count beading
b) Gloss and regular more dull paint
c) Large and regular size Swastika core
d)Godet or 'shared/outsourced ?' Zimmermann pin sets ( with 2 types of catches)
e) Base metal silver or the prodominatly use Ni-aloy

This makes for many EK1 (transitional) variations . I have seen many and during my searches picked up the one partialy shown befor first , as it appears to be possibly Godets starting EK1 . This based on the high grade silver sheet it was struck on , and the shape and assembly of the pin set .

Now if the pins are hand sculptured , that would mean no 2 are exactly alike in contrast if they were stamped . Lets see what Danny comes up with measurments .
Mine came cased as well .

Douglas

[Danny70]

Disregard this post - new measurements below

[Danny70]

Disregard this post - new measurements below

[Danny70]

Disregard this post - new measurements below

[Douglas 5]

Just to note that there are 2 types of making dies Godet used . One Trevor has - plain deep strike 21 and the 'boxed version' with the 21 less deep struck .
Not sure which type came first , but my guess is the plain 21 . They are out there , but very hard to find !

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Lets see if I can get the same spots .? Can you mark the pin picture where you took the measurments . .. so I can get as close as possible to the same spot .
As pictures can distort scale ... measurments might be more accurate . ..assuming the pins are the same length ... and I would think length differences would be created at the top . Measuring from the pin tip then.

Douglas

[streptile]

Douglas, do you have a photo of the whole cross, front and back, that bears the [21] mark? I'm not familiar with that mark. Thanks in advance.

[Danny70]

Douglas,

I have deleted my previous posts with the measurements. Here are some new ones with a measure placed alongside the pin to show where the measurements were taken. This is the best I can do at the moment as it is extremely difficult to get any accuracy due to the distortion of the pin.
The pin length is 37.88mm (but would probably be longer if it was straight).

I had to brighten the pictures so that the measurements of the rule could be seen.