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    #1

    Boxed & Cased KVK...

    --Here's something in my collection that I have always taken for granted, it's come up in correspondence recently and I realised that I've never shared it here. It's no big deal really, but I like to post pics...
    --It's a boxed and cased KVK1. The cross is in great shape, but the case has not one scuff on it! It's probably been in the box the whole time. The cross is unmarked, but the side of the box is marked "Freidrich Orth, Wien 56"
    --Just figured I'd share, I was contemplating E-standing it but I think I may be holding onto it for a while.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Very nice one

    Hello,


    Thanks for sharing this one, it seems in a really stunning condition, i like this kind of awards but in general most collectors do not think of these very highly .


    Friendly greetings,
    my collectionfield : German glider pilots


    http://users.skynet.be/lw-glider/

    Comment

      #3
      Bill

      Very nice combination and thanks for sharing.

      Is the cross itself unmarked? Could you possibly post a pic of the hinge/pin/catch as it's nice to know what set-up Freidrich Orth used on these awards, especially for future reference.

      Thanks

      Rich
      Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
      Decorations of Germany

      Comment

        #4
        --Here's the back...
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          --And the front...

          Comment

            #6
            Dear Bill,

            Looks great but one thing to contemplate:

            the grammatically correct German term is "mit SchwerterN" and not "mit Schwerter".

            Is it possible that this cardboard box could contain a grammar mistake and miss out the "n" that defines the correct grammatical case? Yes. Is it likely? No.

            Just a thought.

            Cheers, Frank H.
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment

              #7
              Indeed that's true. For some reason I remember seen another case that had the same characteristics, I'll have to check in my files when I get home. What are the chances that such a spelling error would occur on such a common word?

              Seba
              Sebastián J. Bianchi

              Wehrmacht-Awards.com

              Comment

                #8
                If Steve Tedds

                doesnt adopt me into his family, you can
                Excellent Bill I havent got one of these yet but when I do if it is in that condition I will be truely pleased
                Thanks for sharing, & adding another goal to my collecting addiction
                Strong wind-magic mist, to Asgard the Valkries fly
                High overhead-they carry the dead, Where the blood of my enemies lies - MANOWAR - Hail to England

                Comment

                  #9
                  spelling mistakes

                  Hello,


                  regarding the spelling mistake => i think you guys can see the sam carboard box in Forman's Guide ( latest edition ) on page 53 , number 31 e

                  And now i also notice that the side from the box in Formans guide is shown and has the identical producers name : Friedrich Orth , Wien 56 on it !!!!!!

                  Any other boxes out there ( cardboard cartons !!! ) from this maker ?

                  Friendly greetings,
                  my collectionfield : German glider pilots


                  http://users.skynet.be/lw-glider/

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I'll have to check when I home, but I seem to recall seen (and having a picture of) this mistake. This is getting interesting now....

                    Seba
                    Sebastián J. Bianchi

                    Wehrmacht-Awards.com

                    Comment

                      #11
                      To somebody who speaks a good German (Hochdeutsch) such a spelling mistake is instantly obvious, so I cannot imagine it went through unseen or unnoticed.

                      It would be as obvious as: Our new house with my father garage.
                      Instead of "father´s".

                      But stranger things have happened, I just wanted to have this discussed and get everybody´s knowledge about it.

                      Cheers, Frank H.
                      Cheers, Frank

                      Comment

                        #12
                        --Yes, I understand that the correct grammar would be Schwertern, but have seen this spelling a number of times. The only reference that I can point to at this time is photo of the envelope for the " KVK '2nd Class ohne Schwerter'" in the War Merit Cross section of Angolia's "For Fuhrer and Fatherland". An envelope from a lowly KVK 2 w/out X certainly wasn't faked back in `76, was it?
                        --Regarding mine, the cardboard is certainly period as is the case, and as I said the condition of the case is mint from being exclusively in it's box for many years.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Dear Bill,

                          The crux of the German language is that grammar rules are not simple but at least strictly defined:

                          -"mit Schwerter" is WRONG it has to be "mit Schwertern" (with N)

                          -"ohne Schwerter" (without the N) is RIGHT!!!. "Ohne Schwertern" (with N) would be WRONG.

                          We are looking at two DIFFERENT grammatical cases here, one "Dativ" and one "Akkusativ". One is correct with N, the other not. Sorry, but that´s the way it is and has been for a very, very long time.

                          Still, a MISTAKE could be possible, who knows. It is just not likely, because obvious (to Germans).

                          Cheers, Frank H.
                          Cheers, Frank

                          Comment

                            #14
                            etui question ?

                            Hello Bill,


                            A further question, is the inside of teh etui loose or is it still good attached ? ( if it is loose is it possible to show a close up from the inside of the etui ?? , im just curious if there are any markings, either D&B number or anything else ? )


                            Friendly greetings,
                            my collectionfield : German glider pilots


                            http://users.skynet.be/lw-glider/

                            Comment

                              #15
                              --Yes Stijn, it is removable and there is the 'D&B + a number'. I can't remember it - I'll have to look. Hell, I'll just take a picture...
                              --Frank. Mistakes happened. 1870 EK1's marked 'Loth' for silver content invariably have an umlaut over the 'o', yet I understand that 'grammatically' it shouldn't be there. But there it is...
                              Of lesser significance (and explainable as I understand) is the mark "I Wagner..." on the back of some of these crosses. All other Wagner items; medal-bar labels, stamped awards and printed references are marked with the 'more' correct 'J'.
                              --A photo on pg. 390 of the contemporary reference "The Iron Time" has a Klien & Quenzer packet with 'schwerter', but more relevant is that "For Fuhrer and Fatherland", published in 1976, contains a picture of this spelling error on an envelope for the KVK 2 without swords. Printing phony envelopes for what was then probably a two dollar award almost certainly didn't happen and I'd even tend to believe that even now a forger who goes to great lengths to produce an otherwise foolproof box with period cardboard would get the spelling right. Probably more attentive to a detail like that than the printer working on 'throwaway cartons'. I think that too much emphasis is placed on the general assumption that the Germans made no mistakes (in production of goods!!!!. ). I've heard here on this forum that CE Juncker misspelled their OWN NAME on the dies for their Close Combat Clasp!
                              --Anyway, I'm good with the whole thing; cross, case and box - for reasons already stated here and in the other posts. I've had them for a while and for all that while I've known that 'mit Schwertern' is technically incorrect.
                              Last edited by Bill M; 06-19-2002, 08:05 PM.

                              Comment

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