Juncker Schinkel, different core-finish

[Douglas 5]

The top and bottom arms are very lumpy as the right arm is almost smooth . ... indecating the surface below is flat and the paint dried lumpy . Quite different than the B-type cross where the core surface has dimples in it .

Douglas

[streptile]

Hi Ben,

I see you got that one! I always regretted selling it... but I never knew it came back up on the market, and it sounds like you didn't know it was ever mine Here is my old photo:



Douglas, the size of a cross is a non-issue. AWS was making EKs in 44mm frames (in fact, in these very frames) since at least 1890. As for the other questions you raise, I would point you to some other threads in which these questions have been well discussed already:

The Juncker Schinkel
What makes a Schinkel a Schinkel?
AWS/Juncker

[ben bijker]

Hi Trevor,

no, I didn't know it was yours, picked it up from a canadian dealer if I recall well...
(have to look it up...)
But you are right, we are taking about the same cross......

Te one with the smooth core came from a german site...

[Guripa250]

Hi Ben,

Trevor advise to me in some Junckers EK2 I am very happy with it, excelent friend and work, he is a nice person.

Best

RS

[ben bijker]

Hi Ben,

Trevor advise to me in some Junckers EK2 I am very happy with it, excelent friend and work, he is a nice person.

Best

RS

I couldn't agree more!!!

[streptile]

Thanks Ramon!

However, since Ben taught me most everything I know about EKs, he already knows I am secretly a jerk...

[ben bijker]

Thanks Ramon!

However, since Ben taught me most everything I know about EKs, he already knows I am secretly a jerk...

Well, you hide it pretty well, don't you ???

[streptile]

Well, you hide it pretty well, don't you ???

[Guripa250]

EK2 colection and Blue Division

Hi friends,
Thanks a lot for your advice, I put some photos of my EK2 colection and Blue Division.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=437088
Enjoy with it.....
RS

[Douglas 5]

Trevor :
I am aware of all those posts and AWS did make all those crosses prior to WW2 , Schinkle is a Schinkle etc ...no issue with any of that . It is the AWS Juncker connection/assotiation I disagree with .... ( relying on the for me trustworthy information I had received ) . The presented version is well done and surprizingly another possibility .

Douglas

[Tiger 1]

Let me see if I'm getting this right. Are we now suggesting that any '39 EK that seems to be made with a '14 era frame is a Schinkle style cross?

Excuse my ignorance but not all '14 EKs were of Schinkle style. These Junckers are beautiful crosses indeed but they certainly do not fit the look of a proper Schinkle style cross in my opinion.

Schinkle crosses have a short parallel section of opposing beading eminating from the center corners before the beading starts to curve to the outside corners. The crosses shown here have the beading curving outward continuously from the inside corners.

If we accept these as Schinkles then every EK, KC And GC is a Schinkle.

Tony

[ben bijker]

Trevor :
I am aware of all those posts and AWS did make all those crosses prior to WW2 , Schinkle is a Schinkle etc ...no issue with any of that . It is the AWS Juncker connection/assotiation I disagree with .... ( relying on the for me trustworthy information I had received ) . The presented version is well done and surprizingly another possibility .

Douglas

Douglas: there are ek1 around with a 2-piece screwback, made with AWS and Juncker parts, so there is a connection.

@Tony: it is not my theory, but a great part of the collectors has accepted this particular cross as a Schinkel.
There are more crosses, like the one with the straight 9, the " intermediate" (unknowwn maker) that are considered schinkels.

The ek with the straight arms and big date is all of a sudden a schinkel-B variation, so things appear to change over time.


@RS Thanks for your link, very nice!!

[Roglebk]

My definition of a Schinkel is a 1939 EK made with frames/dies that was made before 1918. But then what about the 'One piece Otto Schickle' Schinkel and what about all those frames/dies made between 1918 and before the new Nazi regulations came into place?

The Definition is hard but let's at least call it a Schinkel and not a Shinkle.

[Roglebk]

The top and bottom arms are very lumpy as the right arm is almost smooth . ... indecating the surface below is flat and the paint dried lumpy . Quite different than the B-type cross where the core surface has dimples in it .

Douglas

Douglas> All 'Stippled core/swas on a base' R3's i saw so far has got a stippled core (yours included, at least from the pics). Some of them had lost some of the paint and shoved a true stippled core that is not caused by lumpy paint.

However, some that looked to be smooth cored turned out to have a thick paint that dried smooth, the core is still stippled.

[Roglebk]

So the crosses started out larger than 42X42 befor WW1 , then were made smaller during WW1 and back to 44X44 mm during WW2 . Why were these 'Schinkel frame dies' kept - hidden for about 40 years - and then suddenly re-used ?

Douglas

These type of frames seems to have been used unaltered at least since the mid 1890's (Jubileé 1870 EK's) through the WWI (for example in the high end Enamelled EK's) all the way up to early WW2. This makes me wonder if they had multiple frame dies or if the production line was so small that the same dies survived for so long.