car boot sell

[tbgbc]

??????

i just dont get it but my frame seems to be the same as the genuine one around the swastika, i just cant see the difference between mine and the pictures of the others .

[Robert P.]

i just dont get it but my frame seems to be the same as the genuine one around the swastika, i just cant see the difference between mine and the pictures of the others .

Well,

I've done my best to show the similarities between your cross and the fake '113', '84' and '16' crosses. If you have a 10X loupe or a good magnifying glass it will reveal what I have posted for comparisons. Please take a close look at yours under magnification. :-)

Robert

[tbgbc]

thank you

thanks to everyone who has tried to tell me whats wrong with my cross, i obviously need to study this hobby much much more , i cant see why they need to fake something that isnt work a massive amount , the work that goes into making this type of three piece medal surely must outweigh the profit.
cheers all.
gary

[Wik]

One other feature I've noticed on this fake is its wide (semi-wide) flange. The glossy paint and the fresh red/orange rust are also red flags to me.

Robert

Robert, the one thing I have learned is the rust. Rust tends to scare me, in certain areas or situations anyhow. I agree, the rust showing around the Swaz did send up a red flag after I looked closer. Though, Just glossing over the pic and not really LOOKING at it made me think it was a good one, at first.

Ryan

[tbgbc]

what makes a fake

can someone tell me what makes a medal a fake,?
i was told by another collector that the only real experts are the people who made the original medals and most if not all are dead now,
as the war went on wasnt it harder to get the correct materials to make the medals so quality suffered, this is the other collectors views and not mine i must add cos i really dont know much about anything.

[streptile]

can someone tell me what makes a medal a fake,?

Hi Gary,

For Third Reich Iron Crosses, a fake is understood to mean anything that was manufactured after the end of the war with the intention of deceiving another person (usually a collector) into believing it was an authentic wartime piece.

Most early fakes were either very good (often made with some original parts immediately after the war), or very bad (one-piece castings of terrible quality). Towards the end of the 20th C., most fakes were pretty bad. However, since an international online community capable of sharing information and experience was not yet in evidence, many collectors were fooled anyway. But both those things have changed: today it has become very difficult to distinguish fakes from authentic pieces for all but experienced collectors, but, happily, the experience required to do the job is available to anyone, and for free, on this and other forums.

So when someone posts a cross, how can we tell if it's a fake? There is a finite number of known makers and types of the Iron Cross that were made during the war. Most of these types are known to collectors, and their specific identifying characteristics committed to our memories or to our files of reference photographs. There is also a handful of known fakes. Because of the internet, we have been able to chart the history of many of these fakes. When did they first appear on the market? In what numbers? What are their characteristics? When a piece surfaces that does not conform in its particulars to one of the known originals, we ask ourselves: is it a previously unknown original, or does it instead conform to one of the known fakes? Almost every time, it is the latter.

The cross under discussion in this thread is a known fake type (as was your engraved EK1, and the EK2 on your bar that you showed recently). It does not conform in its particular characteristics with any known originals, but does conform with known fakes that surfaced on the market within the past ten years or so.

[Jon Fish]

can someone tell me what makes a medal a fake,?
i was told by another collector that the only real experts are the people who made the original medals and most if not all are dead now,
as the war went on wasnt it harder to get the correct materials to make the medals so quality suffered, this is the other collectors views and not mine i must add cos i really dont know much about anything.

I'm afraid these are all excuses used by people that are trying to sell crap to new collectors,most of the time. Stop buying for a minute and read through some WAF threads first.The seasoned guys here have all learnt the hard way and believe me it costs to learn,so use their knowledge and learn from the bottom up mate.

[tbgbc]

thank you

thank you trevor, now i have more of an idea how people know,
since i joined all my posts seem to be about the fakes ive bought as genuine items, its ruining it slightly for me to be honest because there is so much to it, my previous hobbies have been straight forward in comparison, even though one nearly killed me,
all the best and thanks again
gary

[tbgbc]

I'm afraid these are all excuses used by people that are trying to sell crap to new collectors,most of the time. Stop buying for a minute and read through some WAF threads first.The seasoned guys here have all learnt the hard way and believe me it costs to learn,so use their knowledge and learn from the bottom up mate.

thank jon,
is there a section of waf that is there for buying and selling.?
gary

[Jon Fish]

thank you trevor, now i have more of an idea how people know,
since i joined all my posts seem to be about the fakes ive bought as genuine items, its ruining it slightly for me to be honest because there is so much to it, my previous hobbies have been straight forward in comparison, even though one nearly killed me,
all the best and thanks again
gary

Don't loose heart Gary but trust no one till you know them well.And even then buy the item not the story or what the seller tells you, some of these guys will try to sell peanuts to someone suffering from anaphylactic shock.

[Jon Fish]

thank jon,
is there a section of waf that is there for buying and selling.?
gary

Yes- the E Stand. Check it out,and you get a 7 day return period. AND its self regulated by fellow members with dubious items pulled up for discussion. Your pretty safe.
Check out Die Kniepe area also as there are lots of threads about better dealers and starting collecting, how to focus etc.

[tbgbc]

great thank you
gary

[Wik]

Gary,

I think Trevor summed it up very well.

I tend to agree with Jon, work on looking through the info here and then decide what interests you. Look at an item, not the overblown story that is told to you. I have made many friends here on WAF that I trust and generally know (at least in this section) who is who.

One of the nicest guys I have meant in collecting was actually an older gent at a local show. His wife and he were exceptionally nice and they were selling medals. Later, I found out what I bought from them was all fake. I bring this up just because he fed me an eerily similar explanation when I asked him about the legitimacy of a few items, his reply was "Well I wasn't on the assembly line to make it, so I can't say I saw it come off the press."

We laughed at that and I bought the item, which was a fake. It is, to date, the only fake I have purchased, but I was out 160 dollars and you really only need to get burned once to make sure it doesn't happen again. As discouraging as it may seem, I encourage you to start researching and you will ALWAYS find people here more than willing to help, just as Robert has with his superb images. So don't let the bad eggs ruin it for you. There are out there, no question. But if you get to know people here and surround yourself with quality people (along with a few book purchases, depending on your interest of collecting) you will see how fun and exciting this hobby can be


Ryan

[baldy1939]

Hi Gary , i just wanted too agree fully with Jon about what he says about the E-stand , it is one of the better places to buy from & safest especially as a new collector . This forum is full of great knowledge in different sections & it also has a wealth of great & very helpfull members if you need any help . Just to add that you wonder why the fakers bother faking EK's as you say they are not that valueable , well let me & others tell you , fakers are today faking nearly everything too do with Third Reich items right down to the cheapest of cheap items ! It is sad but true , i found this out myself when i first started collecting & i'm still learning all the time . Hope this helps you in your future collecting . Almost forgot too mention , buy as many good recommended reference books as you can & learn from these aswell .

[Woolgar]

Gary, I really feel your anger and frustration on discovering you have fakes.

Keep in close touch with members, dont be afraid to ask and use the E Stand ! You will soon build a nice collection of genuine TR items which you will love!

Dont get disheartened its a fantastic hobby !!!!

Nick