'1939' bar, fault?

[Bill M]

Everybody slow down!

--Let's be careful here before dismissing this one! It would be a shame if misinformation on gut feeling regarding the sometime overconfidence in German 'perfection' caused a good piece to go in the garbage. I personally think that this Spange is the real deal.
--First of all as Gordon said, that 'one strip = no good' theory is not a blanket policy for fakes. Yes fakes have them. Good ones do too.
--That said, I myself have done some research into the uneven lower-wing "flaw" on 2nd Class Spanges as I own one marked L/16. I just briefly looked into my photo archives for references, but had no luck - the only reference that I can point to at this time is page 246 of "The Iron Time". Up top, there are photos of the reverse of four versions (back photos only for maker-mark reference).
Bingo - L/16 to the left, L/12 to the right. You can see, even from behind that the Eagle's feathers by the legs are indeed uneven. As a matter of fact, the '1st pattern' in the case on the same page has, you guessed it! - UNEVEN FEATHERS.
Three fakes on one page of a major reference? Maybe, but somehow I doubt it.
--As I said, I did research and will look to produce more evidence than just the Previtera book's photos.
--Hey Gordon, could you help me out in possibly saving this one? Got any photos of Steinhauer or Juncker pieces?

[Bill M]

--The six is very light, but it is a six.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I am in the camp that does not like these L/12 Spanges. I think Jody Beltram's (?now closed?) site used to have a link to an article about them.

Apart from the problems mentioned above, other things I don't like about these examples can be observed on the face of the swastika and the face of the numbers. They have a subdued overlapping "scallop" or "chiselled" effect, as though the face of the numbers and the swastika in the die was formed by scraping away a bit at a time. On originals, theses surfaces are very smooth and commonly (not always) burnished. I don't think wear can realistically explain these features in this case, unless someone took a hammer to it. Also, if you look closely at the outer edges of the rounded part of the '9's in the date, you will see that they are ANGULAR, not round.

Regards
Mike K

PS: Jody, if you read this, have you moved or deleted your site? If the former, what is the current link please.

[Bill M]

--Jeez, damn my eyes! This is a little embarrassing, but I missed that blob and based my statements around the pin arrangement and the uneven feathers. I feel a little foolish, don't know how that blob happened, and how I didn't see it. I don't know what I think about this one now, sure the Germans made mistakes but damn that's ugly! I don't think they would have let that one out of the shop.:o :o :o

[George Stimson]

The Blob

And on a private purchase piece at that! Can you see the guy buying it? "Yeah, I'll take that one!"

George

[tinmantis]

Thanks for the research and pics guys.

This bar has me stumped now... I've nearly twisted the muscles in my eyes over the weekend looking at it too!
Bill M's L/16 looks ivery similar to mine, uneven feathers et al. I too have seen quite a few with this feature.
The date does look a bit 'hammered' though, as mentioned by Mike K. But it all looks just 'too real'

A private purchase, is a good point. Who would buy it with that 'blob' on it! Well, for one, I did! Bill M missed it for a moment too. Surely this argument works the other way too, if it was a fake, it's too good a job for a blob that big to be left, then put on a good ribbon, on a good cross, and bend the prongs outwards, and not in?
It seems all a bit strange, which I suppose would provoke the old saying, 'not for my collection'....

Let's not give up yet, I'd like to know more about the 'hammered' numbers, and uneven feathers etc.

If our friend Francois is willing, I hope to get more closer pics up later today.
cheers
jon

[tinmantis]

also,
surely there's quite a few ways for someone to get hold of a privately purchased bar? other than sitting in a shop considering about 50 all on display?
Post maybe? Relying on others etc. that maybe don't have such an eye...

BTW How many of these bars were privately manufactured?

[François SAEZ]

Yup, please send me the pics while you fill your member form ;-)

François

[François SAEZ]

Head

[François SAEZ]

wings

[François SAEZ]

Date

[François SAEZ]

blob

[tinmantis]

Anyone have one of these, with this kind of 'hammered' effect on the date?
jon

[tinmantis]

Gentlemen,
I'm just giving it a last try to ressurect this thread...

I am very interested to see any other L/12 marked ek2 spanges, to compare similarities with my own, somewhat strange example.
Of particular interest is the 'hammered-look' date 1939

thankyou
jon

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Jon,

Below are links to a repro L/12 EK2 Spange that I was stung by - with the hammered look.

Regards
Mike K

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumgeo/Fakes-obv.JPG

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumgeo/Fakes-rev.JPG