Fritz Zimmermann linked to UB Makers :

[Douglas 5]

Members :
I have obtained a few crosses which I will be showing and should be quit interesting in more ways than one . The most unusual one is a heavy unmarked Fritz Zimmermann EK2 with an U'bergross Core indicating there are other makers involved in UB crosses , not just the one !
This presentation will be about 15 posts long and to hold off with replies until it is complet ., ... after which I am certain there will be a few .

First a very quick recap of Fritz Zimmermann EK2 frame and core variations that are out there .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

A few more pictures :

[Douglas 5]

This is the Fitz Zimmermann unmarked EK2 with an U'bergross core . The frame is the regular frame used . Depending how the pictures are posted one does not pick up on this immediatly ..... the Swastika does not fit ! All 4 corners have been filed down to squese the core in . Lighting and camera setting is very important and will cange appearance drastikly . The first picture one would think it a regular NI-aloy plated frame . Taken at the same time and same scale - note a difference in date sizes .
The 2nd picture below the real frame color - a Ag-aloy frame ;......

[Douglas 5]

Outdoor closeups of the cross ; shallow core features and crisp bead detail .
2nd pictures shows the filed off corners and more importantly that the beading is solid - not hollow . The inside bead bottom ... the cut through solid metal - same thicknes as the frame half .

[Douglas 5]

Here the first picture shows one of the solid corners quit well . Cross is heavy at 21.5 grams . Note also the frame soldering and file marks lower right cut out - frame has not been apart .
Picture 2 : low view shot of more matching file marks , low Swastika and horizontal file marks on the frame arm most likely correcting the frame to the right size .

[Douglas 5]

First pic : When comparing to another picture( Robert Pierce) the larger size Swastika does not stand out do to different picture scale . The frame and beading is a dead match . The UB core on the right has surprizingly an identical date that sits a bit lower . How can this be done ???? Multy part dies with exchangable componants ???
Second pic : again matching date design but sitting only lower . Appearse to be slightly larger but this could be do to not matching picture scale !

[Douglas 5]

When observing this cross - scale is very important ! Mainly to eliminate lighting , camera, angles and scale infuences . Where possible working with same picture side by side comparisons ! These crosses are chalenging enough on their own without adding more variables to them .
Picture 1 : the UB core Fritz Zimmermann compared to a thin date F Z I have - same scale .
Picture 2 : reverse shows a difference in the date . The UB core on the right has a lower sitting 2 level sitting date .

[Douglas 5]

A group close up comparison . .. the best I could make , exspecialy as the cross in the middle is not 100% the same scale as the other 2 .

[Douglas 5]

This one picture I am throwing in here is because of the uneven date of the reverse UB core Fritz Zimmermann . We had the same thing assotiated with a totaly different cross ! Why we have these cores with uneven misplaced/misaligned numbers I do not know . Is the same engraver or company involved is pure speculation and probably purely co-incedental !?!
Interesting observation :

[Douglas 5]

Here we come to the - what I think - is the most interesting feature of this cross . I had been refering to it as "thick" .... and it is !!
1st picture shows the other F Zimmermann cross I have compared to a thick R3 cross . The R3 has a hollow beading and the raised core shoulder can be seen in 2 places protruding up into the beading .
2 nd picture : is the real surprize with the same R3 cross compared to the thick F Zimmermann cross . In spots it is even thicker than the 3 and has only a minor bowing which I thick is accidental in nature .

[Douglas 5]

And one more pic showing the jump and ribbon ring . Ar m sides are a bit longer on the Fritz Zimmermann on top .

[Douglas 5]

Here now a few comparisons to show how this Fritz Zimmermann on the left compares with a regular U'bergross EK2 - in this case to a size reduced cross .
Amazing what 'to scale' comparisons can show us !
The F Zimmermann on the left has : a longer bead step layout and longer arm sides than the regular size reduced UB on the right .
The F Zimmermann on the left has only a regular EK bead layout .. forcing to corners to be filed down to use that peticular core . In contrast the UB on the right where probably the Swastika would have fit in without filing the corners makes me wounder why filing at all ... or was there another core intended !
Picture 2 : reverse of the same crosses with different layout . ... and deffinatly different cores .

[Douglas 5]

And here isa comparison to scale with the UB Godet EK1 . Swastikas are the same size but completely different design ! The bead lay out on the Godet is closer to the edge .

[Douglas 5]

In this comparison I lined up 3 crosses to scale to show that all 3 Swastikas are exactly the same size as if fallowing a size guide . Nothing on the rest of the cores matches at all !
I marked the original picture befor cutting it together to keep the scale for better viewing . These 3 match ! The last picture also shows the differences in frame beading positioning/ layout .

[Douglas 5]

This brings us to one important question :
Is there still....... only one Ubergross design and maker ???
I had already been told by the professor /dad that more than one UB maker exists . I had no documentation other than to find such U'bergross core crosses to demonstrate this . Why these UB cores are in UB frames and in regular frames I am not sure yet .
With these 4 different UB cores I can not see only one manufacturer being involved . Why would they need 4 different cores for the same frame ?????
As these samples - and one to come yet - have shown - frames and EK grades vary - but the Swastika is the same every time ... Would this not make the Swastika the main feature of an U'bergross !!

And for the 4th sample a Juncker 3 flaw frame with an U'bergross core in an EK1 . On this example the corners were not filed at all leaving the one bead corner sitting completly on top of the Swastika !

The thread is now open for comments .

Regards Douglas