Knight Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords Steinhauer & Lück

[ebony]

Posting for 90th Light

[ebony]

Posting for 90th Light

[ebony]

for 90th L

[ebony]

Last one for now for 90th Light

[Dietrich Maerz]

I have said for a long time now that a proper study of the perod Oaks and Swords which are "not official pieces" is long over due. There is much for us all to learn.
Chris

Chris,

you are 100% and absolutely right! The question is only: "how do we determine what was really made before May 1945?" Quality alone - as much as it has to enter into it - can't be the sole factor! And neither can't be any stories behind the pieces. But I am also confident that time and patience will lead us down the right path!

Dietrich

[90th Light]

Chris,

you are 100% and absolutely right! The question is only: "how do we determine what was really made before May 1945?" Quality alone - as much as it has to enter into it - can't be the sole factor! And neither can't be any stories behind the pieces. But I am also confident that time and patience will lead us down the right path!

Dietrich

Hello Dietrich,

well I did not say it would be easy

but something would be better than nothing and it is one of the last frontiers for us all when it comes to EK's & KC's.

The one I have got ebony to post images of is a 101% original but rather than bang on here with the story of how I got, I will let the images do the talking.

This one is a twin of the one in the Imperial War Museum except that the one in London still has most of its frosting where as this one has lost some due to its circumstances during the war.

I must add that it to my eye it is a plated buntmetal and not an 800+ silver type. Thus it is of the highest quality for some thing not made of silver.

Also I have held off getting ebony to post an image of the reverse so we do not give too much away at this stage. Bowen description on page 233 and the image on page 235 explain this nicely.

The point is, this one is different from the oaks and swords which started this thread and more of a style that one would expect but it does show that the real deals are out there. Each one very interesting in more than one way,

Chris

[Leroy]

Chris,
I have no doubt whatsoever that other firms made the Oakleaves and Oakleaves and Swords, other than Godet, and that wearing or display copies of the Brilliants were made by others than Klein. Dietrich has just recently established a set of genuine Juncker Oakleaves, and we already have catalog proof that S&L made Oakleaves. Both of these types may well have been actually awarded on a limited scale. It is, for me, no big leap to believe that O&S were also separately made, both in the brief time between the institution of the Swords and the private sale ban, and afterwards, too, whether for display or perhaps even actual purchase by entitled individuals or approved collectors (and there were some of those).

For several years, I have called repeatedly for those with high quality, preferably glossy, photos of Oaks and O&S to come forward with those photos, so they can be closely reviewed. 9 times out of 10 (and probably more), you will see Godet, but, every once in while, you will see something different. I have already seen some, and I believe Dietrich has as well, that are certainly not Godet, but the photos are too soft to be able to say much else about them. To me, that will be the proof of different makers, in combination with quality of construction. There are certainly very many postwar fakes, but I have yet to see one which really rises to wartime levels of craftsmanship (and, yes, I know that some wartime material was pretty poor). In addition to photos, we need to be studying period advertisements, magazines, and the like. We need to trace museum accession histories, too. I'm sure others will have more ideas.

Almost every month, we learn something new which can change our perspectives. Just last month, a Schickle RK with unmarked Godet Oakleaves, a total anomaly, was found. Before that, we learned that Deumer was involved in RK production. Just this week, Trevor ("Streptile") has broken new ground by revealing that there was not just 1 Godet in Berlin, but 2, both involved in "high-end" production! Who knows where that will lead....

I wish I could devote all my time to this research (as I'm sure do Dietrich, Trevor and many others) but it's not possible. We all need help from everyone who has any interest in these things at all.
Best,
Leroy

P.S. Like your O&S!

[90th Light]

I was hoping that that you might like them Leroy,

this thread and the others highlighted here are excellent reading.

Your reference to Bowen and what he came across in his time was a good one in all of this.

The set of oaks & swords which started this thread are very interesting but when you combine this with the set which Bowen observed in the Imperial museum, placed there in 1946. One starts to realise how we have to get stuck into this subject before it is too late.

Did not know what to make of my set at first but when an advanced collector showed me some good photos of the ones in the Imperial museum traced back to the War Office aquisition. He also pointed out to me that they were mentioned/ illustrated in Bowen's book. I knew I had something worth holding on to,

Now that we have two interesting sets on this thread then may be we might see some more that other members are sitting on perhaps also unsure if they should post them or not like I was,

Many thanks, Chris

[Leroy]

I wish more people would post! That's the only way we'll ever see what's out there.

[all1knew]

so it's been a few years now since this thread started. I will ask a question here as a lot of heavy hitters are in this thread.

Did companies produce RK's & Oaks which were never intended for issue? We see zinc Knights Cross of the War Merit crosses and I would tend to think these would fall into that category as well.

William Kramer