EK1 Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster (D.R.G.M) 653146

[ben bijker]

Trevor, I think you hit the mail on the head.
Deumer style date, but to low on the core...
Can't believe that I've overlooked it...

Fake core + 1914 ek1 and a bit of work: 400 Euro "profit" a piece, that makes sense.

Very well spotted !!

[streptile]

Thanks, Ben.

Fake core + 1914 ek1 and a bit of work: 400 Euro "profit" a piece, that makes sense.

I agree 100%.

We see this a lot lately... core swapping.

[Roglebk]

Deumer frame and core, totally sure about that. Weird to see a Meybauer screw and plate on it.

First of all i mixed up the Schinkel frames and then missed the Fake Deumer core. Glad there are people with better eyes out there, nicely spotted Trev! A good 1914 Meybauer turned into rubbish makes me steamin mad!

[5tefan]

My personal feeling is, it looks like a which-torridness to me!
I've got the cross in my hand and I don't believe it, that this cross is a put together result! Even the picture of an identical EK1 1914 to my EK1 cross was ignored! And now the thread that the core should be an fake ...

sorry that's all too much for me and I can't believe it!

[LuckyLuudje]

Someone is out there swapping cores. We've seen good round-3 EK2 cores swapped into LDO-marked EK1s, we've seen good 1870 EK2 cores swapped into 1914 EK1s, we've seen bad 1870 EK2 cores swapped into good 1914 EK2 frames, and some of these have been Detlev's fake-of-the-weeks. All the soldering looks great, and the patina consistent across the seams. Someone is out there doing this, and now I am 99.9% convinced, looking at 5tefan's core, that it matches known-bad Schinkel cores, and is swapped into probably a good Meybauer DRGM 1914 EK1.

Not only cores.
For some reason it became very popular to use the DRGM disc on Schinkels.
Here is another (and I have many more in my files).

As far as the cross goes that started this thread, I still don't care about at all.
I got many issues with it after I looked closer whenmy first red flag was raised when I saw that the thing on top of disc is bended, but the screw is Very short (and the uniform needs to be between it).

[streptile]

I've got the cross in my hand and I don't believe it, that this cross is a put together result!

Even the picture of an identical EK1 1914 to my EK1 cross was ignored!

And now the thread that the core should be an fake ...

sorry that's all too much for me and I can't believe it!

Hi Stefan.

I didn't ignore your identical 1914 EK1! In fact said I'm sure that it's the exact sort that was used to make your fake Schinkel. There can be no doubt that your core is the same used in fakes, that core-swapping has become a favorite way of faking, that your cross matches no known originals, and that the fakers' soldering and patination technique has gotten good enough to fool the best of us. Luud's point about the DRGM disc should also not be ignored.

I'm very sorry this one is bad, and I would try and get a refund before it's too late. I, too, have had some crosses revealed as fakes by the same folks who are helping you in this thread. It's all a process of learning.

Hopefully this one will not fool any more collectors, as it is quite sophisticated.

[LuckyLuudje]

Although I don't think that Zimmerman is involved in making this cross, the answer may be found on imperial EK's
I have seen many EK1's with 1914 core with the L/52 stamp (made much later than I expect Maybauer to have used the Schinkel frames).
This is for example a L/52 that is currently for sale:

[Roglebk]

Although I don't think that Zimmerman is involved in making this cross, the answer may be found on imperial EK's
I have seen many EK1's with 1914 core with the L/52 stamp (made much later than I expect Maybauer to have used the Schinkel frames).
This is for example a L/52 that is currently for sale:

Hi Luud, we better have this discussion in any of the threads regarding those crosses. Here are some

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=264541

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=3534597

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=385180

[Roglebk]

My personal feeling is, it looks like a which-torridness to me!
I've got the cross in my hand and I don't believe it, that this cross is a put together result! Even the picture of an identical EK1 1914 to my EK1 cross was ignored! And now the thread that the core should be an fake ...

sorry that's all too much for me and I can't believe it!

Hi Stefan, who ignored your 1914? At first i stated that it was a Deumer core and frame, sorry for my honest misstake! I mixed up the frames of the Deumer and Meybauer 1914/Schinkel crosses and missed the fact that the core looks to be the "Deumer lookalike fake."

Firmly believe that sombody took a 1914 Meybauer, maybe one that had a rusted core or damaged in some other way, and put a fake core in it.

Do a comparising between your core and the "Deumer lookalike fake" and you will se that they looks to be a match. The Deumer fake has been known for a long time now but it still tricks people.

[ben bijker]

Hi Stefan, who ignored your 1914? At first i stated that it was a Deumer core and frame, sorry for my honest misstake! I mixed up the frames of the Deumer and Meybauer 1914/Schinkel crosses and missed the fact that the core looks to be the "Deumer lookalike fake."

Firmly believe that sombody took a 1914 Meybauer, maybe one that had a rusted core or damaged in some other way, and put a fake core in it.

Do a comparisson between your core and the "Deumer look-alike fake" and you will se that they looks to be a match. The Deumer fake has been known for a long time now but it still tricks people.

It is indeed the core of the Deumer look-alike fake.
I didn't realize that either.
I am used to seeing these in the uneven shaped Latvian frames, not in an original frame....


@5tefan : what do you mean by : " which-torridness" ??

O, never mind, I just looked it up.
Not everything you post is flawless 5tefan, I think you should get used to not hearing what you want to hear.
You are showing a cross here, and that leads to a discussion.
That is the only way to learn, isn't it??
Apart from that, you could return it to the previous owner, or???

[5tefan]

It is hard for me, that I catch a copy.
It is now the third copy after 4 years.
I bought this cross @ Kassel.

Now I try to return this cross.

[streptile]

It happens to every one of us.

When I see something that is not 100% textbook, I put it on hold and request opinions from experts like Ben, Luud, Robert, the mods here, whoever is particularly knowledgeable in the field. If I get a , I go for it.

If this isn't possible, I ensure a good return period from the seller and post it immediately. That way I can still return it if the replies are .

Oh... and if I have doubts about the opinions I've received, I do some research myself

[5tefan]

Happy end
Today I got my money back

[Flemming]

Happy end
Today I got my money back

That is good to hear.

In this hobby is really getting hard to know all the facts about good and fake EK

/Flemming