Unusual Screwback EK1

[Colorado]

The top one appears to have active rust. Where did it come from? Here is mine for comparison.

[Sonderkommando]

Here you go Dez,

Three different dates (cores) on original "Souval" EK's.

Regards,
Brett

[Dez H]

Brett; what are your thoughts on all this? Why so many cores from RS?

George Stimson also owns a round EK2 like mine:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=round

Maybe George you could take some larger shots of yours for us?

[Colorado]

Is it not possible that Souval had a different die for EK2's and for EK1's explaining the difference there? The one I put up I believe shows the typical Souval look. Low set 3 and ridge on the outside corners.

I am inexperienced so, I have to go with what I know. but if I was offered the one Gordon posted, I would pass because I exceeded my knowledge. The active rust the lack of definition in the numbers and the matt finish on the core would do it. I have passed on many good items in my life though.

[Blitz]

Unfortunately i don't have anything to compare with these examples, but this is very interesting nevertheless. I've never known about any manufacturer that used different sets of dies on 1st and 2nd classes.. Damn, this is a juicy riddle!

[Colorado]

Unless it is marked 58 (like mine) and/or displays the dropped 3, how can you say conclusively it is a period Souval piece? Assuming some of these others posted are original, is it not possible they are another manufacturer?

I tend to agree, there is only one die.

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Dez,

You will find a difference between the first and second class EK cores as they were struck on different dies. The first class core is thinner as it has to fit snuggly between the flat backplate and only the front half of the frame, where as the second class is thicker as it has to fit snuggly between two frame halves and it also includes the "1813" date on the back.
As to the difference between first class cores, your guess is as good as mine. Souval MAY have used two different cores through the war, but we KNOW he made EK's post war.
And we KNOW that repro Souval KC's have a dropped three on them!

Brett

[Dez H]

Hello Brett

Here is another one to add fuel to the fire, seems to be Souval beading, but not souval core or typical souval reverse setup, your thoughts?
Note also the tiny die flaw on the top arm.

This EK is on the way to me and the seller has given me permission to post the pictures,

[Dez H]

Reverse:

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Dez,

Souval EK's are a real minefield to be honest and I have seen so many different set-ups that claim to be original that I am still in doubt as to what is correct and what isn't!
Your cross seems to be the same as Jeffs cross above and I won't state if it's right or wrong as I don't have a definate opinion, but I will say that the Souval EK2 posted in this thread conforms more to what I would expect of an original EK in the sense of the date being level, etc.
In Victoria there are "souval" EK's popping up all over the place, as an example just contact I.S.Wrights in Ballarat or their city store, they have one in each!
These Souval frames I feel were used by other manufacturers and that's why you will find different cores in them, but the dipping 3 worries me as this is a typical Souval trait of their post war crosses. (KC in particular).
Sorry I can't be of more help.

Regards,
Brett

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here is one of mine with a Souval frame. It has the same dropping "3" - and it is marked L15. This is the type Gordons shows as an L15 in his book. However, just one of the 4-5 L15 on the market....
The reverse is different to yours, Dez.
Souval is a minefield!!

[Colorado]

Hi Brett. Mine is marked L58, not 58, and I agree they appear to be a minefield. Would not Souval use the same dies post war as during wartime? I see we have a difference of opinion on the dropped "3".

What is Vet acquired is true test. I do not know anything about Souval RK's, but I thought dropped 3's were a good thing on EK's. What say you?

Thanks!

[ChrisJ]

Brass

Here is an image of the Brass core EK1 that I posted on an earlier thread, seems the same as the one posted by Dez ?

[Colorado]

Dez - Mine has the same die flaw as yours????????

[Dez H]

Thanks for the extra info guys, these pieces are definately a minefield.
I always was under the opinion that dipping 3 was a good sign of a RS EK1, however Brett you make the excellent point that this is a feature of RS Knight's Crosses, which they never made wartime.

Would be interested to see pictures of maker marked Souval pieces and opinions from other collectors, George, Gordon?