The Juncker information source and there from following 'Projects' :
As some of the members here already know I have been lucky to obtain some very interesting information by unbelieable co-incidence that will have significant impact on this forum and for collectors world wide . It brings to light new discoveries , and new general and specific information and facts not known or recconnaise so far . It will solve some 'naging' questions and put to rest some miths and mis-information .
First what and how did this happen .
Doing research on a Nickle-silver measuring cup I had from my grandmother , I was trying to identify the silver mark and the other markings on the bottom of it : wmf and a small g . To do so I just went to the local mall and asked the Silversmith there . The old fellow there recconaised the wmf immediatly as : Wu'rtenburgische Metal Fabrik - but was not certain about the g . The propryetor being from Wuppertal - a town in Germany - knew a German Professor from the University/Technical Institute - . The 2 had an apprenticeship program set up . Amongst the conversation I found out that the professor was from Berlin and his dad was an Orden and Ehrenzeichen worker(forman) and Jewler apprentice in Berlin during the war . You probably guessed the company by now : yes... it was The Juncker Works in Berlin ! After the war his dad there had been hounded by collectors alot and from then on denied any connection just to have his peace . As much info I got he worked for Juncker from approximatly 1938 on up to the bombing of the plant , after which he worked as a jewler apprentice in Berlin and later on had his own little shop . Do to a birth defect - Klumpfuss = foot deformity he was exempt from active war service . In the factory he worked his way up to a coordinator/floor forman .
The professor has a fair bit of knowledge , be it more general, and he had his reputation at the faculty to protect and normaly does not discuss anything his dad was involved with during the war . After assurance from the other Jewler that I was not a newspaper reporter etc ... only a genuine collector/researcher , he agreed to meet .Not until our first meeting did I myself find out through him about his dad connection to the Juncker factory .
To my surprise the professor is aware of this forum and has read some postings , but will not get activly involved and post anything himself . In his words: 'Most forums are about the attrocious collecting greed and trophyism and misuse of these personly hard earned awards !!!' This one shows the most serious research /historical effort . He has some family relative that is an actual member on this forum , as much as he would reveal , I understode it to be the son of his daughter ?
The original question I started out with were the extra markings - like the diamond mark , squares and circles etc - on L59 EK1s . I did additionaly make and have on me a lot of copies of W&L and Juncker cross closeups and S&Ls and L59s . I had a list of questions , some he answered and some he did not know . From the detailed closeup pictures of the Juncker and W&L crosses he picked out - which was which instantly and revealed starteling details about the connection between Juncker and W&L . He did call his dad in Berlin once and I was only able to meet with the Professor 2 times . Because of my interest in Juncker crosses the majority questions I had were about Juncker croses , but also included other makers W&L , Godet , S&L , aswell as Juncker bombing , Gablonz process and general manufacturing of crosses - techniques and templates , makermarks , very little about KCs and more about "UBs" . The only time I was able to break the dead seriousness of the meeting with a laugh was with the "Mother Die" and U'bergrosse question . The funniest invented exspressions he has ever heard .
From these 2 meetings I will be presenting the results in form of various projects showing and explaning the information I had gotten in leu of actual writen war time documentation . Most of the projects will be easy to understand and are not complicated at all , some very surprizing and Juncker/ W&L project being the only more involved one !
Items that will be covered in these projects are :
Juncker/ W&L connection
Cross manufacturing time line, techniques and templates
Juncker and S&L Spanish cross and Schinkel B conflict
U'bergross purpose what and why
Secret manufacturer cross monograms
The Gablonz Process
Spin off projects as result of the above will be :
Intermixed parts crosses
1943 cross crisis and re-activated dies
War and post war bead types
RE-worked dies and flaws
Godet and Zimmermann association
Now some of these projects are done , others near completion and some I cannot complete on my own and require paticipation from other members as I will never be able to own all necessary crosses myself to show all types or variations - even 5 years from now - to complete the project . Starting some projects that over time will be completed as samples and or new information becomes available ! The 'T' in team work >> as a collecting comunity we can do this ! At this stage I will start to post these projects do to ever growing demand and relentless member pressure . The only reason I was sitting on this information was to have it complete as most possible and prepare it in for presentation . Do to some leaked information some new and wounderful crosses are surfacing that have been overlooked do to not being able to identify them properly . Still a lot a missing data and facts - so some new incorrect assumptions are being develop that could turn out to be more harmfull than good - which have put a new urgentcy to the projects . It never has been my intention -or do I want to see anyone get hurt ........ that said the information in the projects will not please everybody .
The other main question right now is: Why is the professor not doing these presentations himself ? >> Well as one of the main stipulation - regretably- he will not come on the forum himself and in order to get the meetings I had to promiss to keep his identety a secret ! An unfortunate thing and I had tried so hard to change his mind - but something he absolutly would not agree to .
At this stage all I can hope for is that the relative/family member will come forward on the forum . If he will is anyones guess . This has forced me to verify and demonstrate the facts by using the crosses themself in an explanitory fashion to demonstrate the evidence of the received information !
Furthermore since those metings it has come to my attention that the Professor is retired now and had moved back to Berlin to be with his family and ailing father , who sadly now has passed away at age of 95 or 96 ! May his soul rest in peace !
I am posting this information in a seperate thread to avoid having to repeat this information source with every new project and only quickly refer to it at the start . Also at this time I would like to thank all the members that have lend a hand sofar .
Douglas
As some of the members here already know I have been lucky to obtain some very interesting information by unbelieable co-incidence that will have significant impact on this forum and for collectors world wide . It brings to light new discoveries , and new general and specific information and facts not known or recconnaise so far . It will solve some 'naging' questions and put to rest some miths and mis-information .
First what and how did this happen .
Doing research on a Nickle-silver measuring cup I had from my grandmother , I was trying to identify the silver mark and the other markings on the bottom of it : wmf and a small g . To do so I just went to the local mall and asked the Silversmith there . The old fellow there recconaised the wmf immediatly as : Wu'rtenburgische Metal Fabrik - but was not certain about the g . The propryetor being from Wuppertal - a town in Germany - knew a German Professor from the University/Technical Institute - . The 2 had an apprenticeship program set up . Amongst the conversation I found out that the professor was from Berlin and his dad was an Orden and Ehrenzeichen worker(forman) and Jewler apprentice in Berlin during the war . You probably guessed the company by now : yes... it was The Juncker Works in Berlin ! After the war his dad there had been hounded by collectors alot and from then on denied any connection just to have his peace . As much info I got he worked for Juncker from approximatly 1938 on up to the bombing of the plant , after which he worked as a jewler apprentice in Berlin and later on had his own little shop . Do to a birth defect - Klumpfuss = foot deformity he was exempt from active war service . In the factory he worked his way up to a coordinator/floor forman .
The professor has a fair bit of knowledge , be it more general, and he had his reputation at the faculty to protect and normaly does not discuss anything his dad was involved with during the war . After assurance from the other Jewler that I was not a newspaper reporter etc ... only a genuine collector/researcher , he agreed to meet .Not until our first meeting did I myself find out through him about his dad connection to the Juncker factory .
To my surprise the professor is aware of this forum and has read some postings , but will not get activly involved and post anything himself . In his words: 'Most forums are about the attrocious collecting greed and trophyism and misuse of these personly hard earned awards !!!' This one shows the most serious research /historical effort . He has some family relative that is an actual member on this forum , as much as he would reveal , I understode it to be the son of his daughter ?
The original question I started out with were the extra markings - like the diamond mark , squares and circles etc - on L59 EK1s . I did additionaly make and have on me a lot of copies of W&L and Juncker cross closeups and S&Ls and L59s . I had a list of questions , some he answered and some he did not know . From the detailed closeup pictures of the Juncker and W&L crosses he picked out - which was which instantly and revealed starteling details about the connection between Juncker and W&L . He did call his dad in Berlin once and I was only able to meet with the Professor 2 times . Because of my interest in Juncker crosses the majority questions I had were about Juncker croses , but also included other makers W&L , Godet , S&L , aswell as Juncker bombing , Gablonz process and general manufacturing of crosses - techniques and templates , makermarks , very little about KCs and more about "UBs" . The only time I was able to break the dead seriousness of the meeting with a laugh was with the "Mother Die" and U'bergrosse question . The funniest invented exspressions he has ever heard .
From these 2 meetings I will be presenting the results in form of various projects showing and explaning the information I had gotten in leu of actual writen war time documentation . Most of the projects will be easy to understand and are not complicated at all , some very surprizing and Juncker/ W&L project being the only more involved one !
Items that will be covered in these projects are :
Juncker/ W&L connection
Cross manufacturing time line, techniques and templates
Juncker and S&L Spanish cross and Schinkel B conflict
U'bergross purpose what and why
Secret manufacturer cross monograms
The Gablonz Process
Spin off projects as result of the above will be :
Intermixed parts crosses
1943 cross crisis and re-activated dies
War and post war bead types
RE-worked dies and flaws
Godet and Zimmermann association
Now some of these projects are done , others near completion and some I cannot complete on my own and require paticipation from other members as I will never be able to own all necessary crosses myself to show all types or variations - even 5 years from now - to complete the project . Starting some projects that over time will be completed as samples and or new information becomes available ! The 'T' in team work >> as a collecting comunity we can do this ! At this stage I will start to post these projects do to ever growing demand and relentless member pressure . The only reason I was sitting on this information was to have it complete as most possible and prepare it in for presentation . Do to some leaked information some new and wounderful crosses are surfacing that have been overlooked do to not being able to identify them properly . Still a lot a missing data and facts - so some new incorrect assumptions are being develop that could turn out to be more harmfull than good - which have put a new urgentcy to the projects . It never has been my intention -or do I want to see anyone get hurt ........ that said the information in the projects will not please everybody .
The other main question right now is: Why is the professor not doing these presentations himself ? >> Well as one of the main stipulation - regretably- he will not come on the forum himself and in order to get the meetings I had to promiss to keep his identety a secret ! An unfortunate thing and I had tried so hard to change his mind - but something he absolutly would not agree to .
At this stage all I can hope for is that the relative/family member will come forward on the forum . If he will is anyones guess . This has forced me to verify and demonstrate the facts by using the crosses themself in an explanitory fashion to demonstrate the evidence of the received information !
Furthermore since those metings it has come to my attention that the Professor is retired now and had moved back to Berlin to be with his family and ailing father , who sadly now has passed away at age of 95 or 96 ! May his soul rest in peace !
I am posting this information in a seperate thread to avoid having to repeat this information source with every new project and only quickly refer to it at the start . Also at this time I would like to thank all the members that have lend a hand sofar .
Douglas
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