Question about KC mm 65

[walter1010de]

Hello to all,

after reading all about Knights Crosses and their makers in this forum, I am a little bit confused.
I own a KC made by Klein & Quenzer with the "800 65" in the loop and the "800" in the 12 o'clock arm. There are no flaws.
The owner got the KC on the 20th of July 1944.

I also got the German Cross in Gold (named piece, mm 21).

The decorations were stored in a candies-box and I got them from the grandson.

Now I read that all the 65 KCs awarded in 1944 should have the typical flaws.
My KC has no flaws.

My question is:
If I own a KC mm 65 K&Q without flaws - is this a "before 1945 - piece"?
The KC was awarded in summer 1944 an has no flaws - is this possible?

Thanks!

[streptile]

Perhaps you can post some good closeup photos of the cross. There are 2 different areas of flaws found on K&Q RKs, and they are both quite small.

[walter1010de]

Pictures

Perhaps you can post some good closeup photos of the cross. There are 2 different areas of flaws found on K&Q RKs, and they are both quite small.

Here are a few pictures. Because my camera is poor I cannot provide better pics of the KC mm 65 and the GC mm 21.

[cobra-2001]

kc cross

Yes i would also like to see the pictures . d

[walter1010de]

Pictures

Yes i would also like to see the pictures . d

One more picture...

[walter1010de]

the show goes on...

One more picture...

Another picture

[walter1010de]

KC Picture, the last one

Another picture

Last picture of the KC mm 65

[walter1010de]

...and now the German Cross in Gold, mm 21

Last picture of the KC mm 65

First picture...

[walter1010de]

German Cross

First picture...

...second picture

[walter1010de]

German Cross, last picture

...second picture

Last picture of the German Cross...

Please do not ask me for better pics - my camera is not able to provide better ones! I am a document collector and I got the awards "by accident", so I am not very experienced in awards.

[streptile]

Nice looking cross.

It's hard to see if your K&Q has the flaw or not. I've drawn a little diagram showing you where to look. The inset shows the flaw (on another cross) -- the two green lines point to two very small lines flanking the 12th bead (counting down from the top) on the 11 o'clock arm. The other line -----?------ shows where it should be on yours. Overall your cross looks just fine: good frame and date, as far as I can tell. I am no expert but these are distinctive. Let me know if yours has this very very small flaw on the 12th bead.

[Ludwig]

Your cross is 100% OK!

[walter1010de]

KC mm 65 and GC mm 21

I left the KC and the GC in the "as found condition".
The KC has no rust. The black colour of the core is perfect.
I know that my pictures are bad, I am sorry for that.

The "800" and the "65" are upside down to each other on the loop of the KC.

Are both crosses "pre 1945"?

[Dietrich Maerz]

The K&Q Knights Cross is a beautiful example of a relative early (unflawed) example. The award date of summer 44 fits to what I have in my data base for groups which are most likely not put together.

The confusion of the three-dot flaw comes most likely form the sentence that "most Knights Crosses by this maker show some small 'flaws' at the front top silver frame. This is a sign for a 100% wartime Knights Cross."

This sentence is misleading (if the flaw is present, it is on BOTH sides) and has contributed a lot to the confusion of the collector. Later (but still wartime) crosses by K&Q have the flaw, but earlier crosses (like this one) don't have it. It is very easy.

A very nice cross!

Dietrich

[evilmike]

Screaming K&Q core, great looking RK