Knight´s Cross "4"

[Dave Kane]

Thanks Martin! Now I understand the content...

[Darrell]

If you were selling your medals for the most profit .... what would you say? They were NOT the same set awarded by Uncle Adolf?

...... just saying

[Brian S]

If you were selling your medals for the most profit .... what would you say? They were NOT the same set awarded by Uncle Adolf?

...... just saying

So that's your opinion, you know Glunz was lying? You're willing to go out on that branch and say he'd say whatever would give him the most money?

[Darrell]

So that's your opinion, you know Glunz was lying? You're willing to go out on that branch and say he'd say whatever would give him the most money?

Brian, people do alot of wierd things when it comes to money. Just take a look around

I obviously don't know the guy and am not saying he was anything but an outstanding citizen.

BUT ... the whole subject of S&L A and B Types has gotten pretty heated at times.

And why?

Because people have some pretty big $$$ tied up in crosses that may or may not be period.

[billy c]

Brian, people do alot of wierd things when it comes to money. Just take a look around

I obviously don't know the guy and am not saying he was anything but an outstanding citizen.

BUT ... the whole subject of S&L A and B Types has gotten pretty heated at times.

And why?

Because people have some pretty big $$$ tied up in crosses that may or may not be period.

I think that sums up the entire 375 post/7600 view thread very nicely in a couple of sentences.

[Brian S]

Brian, people do alot of wierd things when it comes to money. Just take a look around

I obviously don't know the guy and am not saying he was anything but an outstanding citizen.

BUT ... the whole subject of S&L A and B Types has gotten pretty heated at times.

And why?

Because people have some pretty big $$$ tied up in crosses that may or may not be period.

Glunz wrote this in 1992. That's 13 years before any discussion or knowledge of A and B Types. He had no reason to lie about the oaks and rk. It was an accepted S&L period cross. No reason to tell stories.

I would think quite the opposite, he was an old man and had more reason to tell the truth to preserve his own history. The man was a hero by any standard.

[Dave Kane]

Thanks for the posts David....but I am confident that the Gablonzer method was not used for RK's...I am not so confident that all RK manufacturers hand cut the frame after the blanking operation. Junckers certainly hand cut...thats obvious when you look at varying and often badly fitting core/frame gaps on L/12's for example. But S&L are usually tight, uniform and well fitting...hand cut ?...I dont think so, I believe a finishing die was quite possible, but of cause, I have no proof, but I thought that it was necessary to throw this into the arena, as it has some merit in explaining why there is a seeming "mix and match" of features for "B" types.

It needs Dave to check his S&L's to see if the cutting features are the same on his S&L crosses. I only have two "A" types and they are a match on the inside beading line....they would hardly be that if "hand cut" surely...?

Chris, I believe that you are correct! I checked each Cross and they all exhibited 'shear' marks that were consistant in direction, depth ( vertical) etc.

Toward the corners however, there was evidence of hand filing, more on some and less on others.

Just to compare I looked at Juncker Crosses and found much more evidence of hand filing.

[Darrell]

Glunz wrote this in 1992. That's 13 years before any discussion or knowledge of A and B Types. He had no reason to lie about the oaks and rk. It was an accepted S&L period cross. No reason to tell stories.

I would think quite the opposite, he was an old man and had more reason to tell the truth to preserve his own history. The man was a hero by any standard.

Like I said 10 pages of replies ago. All you can take out of any of this is "What you believe and what you want to believe" .....

[Brian S]

...withdrawn

[Darrell]

Here we go again

I guess I better go back and read my past posts, because now I've called a Vet a liar (I guess ). Yep ..... never did. Brian, please don't quote me saying something that I didn't. You always do that.

I have no iron in this fire. I could care less whether A, B (or some undiscovered C) types are Period or Post War.

All I believe is we will never know with 100% certainty where the Period cut off point is ... no matter how many Vet Stories, Dealer promises, GOA's, Theories, Assumptions, Hopes, Thoughts, Guesses and Beliefs ANYONE presents.

And so far that's all I've read and heard in this thread

[Brian S]

...withdrawn <!-- / sig -->

[Darrell]

Well Brian, provenance is a tricky subject. You more than anyone should be remindful of that ....

[Brian S]

...withdrawn

[Eric JB]

Dave, it IS unnatural.

The text was dictated by a german "collector" who bought most of the stuff from Glunz and let it then sign by him.

Glunz was at that time already ill. So his statement is worth nothing especially by stating that his Juncker KC was lost by the end of the war. This framed Juncker KC + oaks was however hanging for over 40 years at the wall in his house in Luedenscheid !!

No prove at all that Glunz got his S&L in 1944.

Martin

Gentlemen,

I really didn't have the intention to come back to this thread for some reasons.

This evening Martin phoned me and we did have a long discussion over the phone.....and now I see a part of my answers over the phone back here on WAF

He told me about the statement written by Addi, as he received a photo of it from Hermann Historika.
I asked him about the typing, what typewriter, the font / characters that were used.....and from his answer I know that it wasn't written or typed by the old fighter pilot himself.
I now see the statement posted here by Martin...for the first time.

I have some old letter from the 90ties that Addi wrote to me and typed on his old typewriter, old and worn inkribbon.
His letters do have light and dark parts for the characters / font, and are just ordinary - nothing special font / characters.
And there isn't a letter from Addi without a typing error in it.

The statement is just too crisp and clear, too fancy font.......not Addi's at all.

I can see a part from what Addi told me about his awards back in the statements, but not all of it.

Dave you are right, the statement looks if it is made up for the collectors market, but not by Addi......he only signed it.
But I can tell you that those two signatures on the statement are without doubt 100% original Glunz ones.

Yes Addi was ill, even before he was selling his material.
Ill, but still with some wartime rememberance, and the best remembered were his wartime highlights.

Addi told me that he sold his material to a german collector.
Let we call him a so called collector or "collector" as that man went from vet to vet.

Some one says that Glunz would sign such a statement for some extra money.....no way !!!
Addi didn't sign everything that was placed under his nose !!!
Extra money for who ? - not for Addi but for the "collector"

That statement wasn't typed on Addi's typewriter, and wasn't typed at his home.
The "collector" made it and Addi only had to sign it.

See a couple of pages back, there I wrote what the group included, all medals/awards etc.
Addi told me that he received 5000 Deutsch Mark for his wartime material.
No gentlemen no typing error made here by me, 5000 DM (Five Zero Zero Zero) !

Addi sold his material late 1992 and in 1993 the so called collector sold it again, so who was making money here ..... not Addi but that "collector" was.
No I will not say who the "collector" is, he is still in business, has his own internet shop, hunting down those old man, and was (is ?) also on waf as a member.

Addi was a real gentleman till the end.

Yes I saw his L/12 RK - without 800 mark, and an EL that was for sure not an official version but something made by a jewellery or craftsman......more a piece of metal that says "I like to look as an EL".
It is the set shown on the photo with the Schirmmütze and the leather coat.
So why the statement says that it was lost at the end of the war ?

Addi did have photos from JG.26 meeting he attended, photos of Addi sitting at a table......and in front of him a nearly mint RK in a mint box, and a nearly mint EL in a mint box, both with a mint ribbon in it.
I would love to have those photos now, not only for my Addi's file but also for you waf members.

Last note: please know and understand that english isn't my mother's tongue.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[Dave Kane]

Dave, it IS unnatural.

The text was dictated by a german "collector" who bought most of the stuff from Glunz and let it then sign by him.

Glunz was at that time already ill. So his statement is worth nothing especially by stating that his Juncker KC was lost by the end of the war. This framed Juncker KC + oaks was however hanging for over 40 years at the wall in his house in Luedenscheid !!

No prove at all that Glunz got his S&L in 1944.

Martin

Eric, yes, Martin covered it nicely and which explained a lot regarding the 'wording'