Finally the first genuine marked DKG by S&L I've seen

[Yuri D.]

Yes, please keep the opinions coming!!!

[George Stimson]

Stijn,

Are you saying that S&L never even made the DK during the war?

[rkdek]

Before giving my opinion, I must admit I do not know very much about DK's and I usually do not follow the discussions pertaining to them.

I have always been told that on a good/genuine DK the swastika doesn't touch the gold wreath, not even the red border.

Yuri, in your example the swastika touches the wreath at the four points.

Any opinions on this observation?

Denis

[CurtD]

I'm no expert either, but what are the black splotches covering the red at the 9, 12, & 3 o'clock tips of the swastikas? It looks like very sloppy workmanship at the least.

[Dave Kane]

Manion's is offering one just like this but without the swaz and pin!
Min. bid is $15.00.
I can't 'lift' the images....he finally smartened up and bought new software so his crap can't be discussed openly. However try this!

http://www.manions.com/bid/bid.asp?c...atitem=5590894

Dave

[Yuri D.]

Dave,

The one Manion's is offering is nothing like this one. That one belongs to the 1957 family.

Yuri

Manion's is offering one just like this but without the swaz and pin!
Min. bid is $15.00.
I can't 'lift' the images....he finally smartened up and bought new software so his crap can't be discussed openly. However try this!

http://www.manions.com/bid/bid.asp?c...atitem=5590894

Dave

[Yuri D.]

Those "black splotches" are SHADOWS. And this is workmanship that matches Zimmermann's and Klein's quality, if you held this DKG in your hand, you would know what I'm talking about.

Yuri

I'm no expert either, but what are the black splotches covering the red at the 9, 12, & 3 o'clock tips of the swastikas? It looks like very sloppy workmanship at the least.

[Dave Kane]

That's good then! I noted the similar elongated and narrow 'base' for the upper pin area and the round area for the hook.
Dave

[Brian S]

I can't see anything wrong with it. But, comparing to the others I have is apples and oranges, but still, this S&L looks very convincing. I'm tempted to agree that I'd expect the '57 date ring and a few other items to match this one...

[Stijn David]

German crosses

Hello,


Lets get further on with this one as ieally interested in the outcome => is there anyone who can show us more S&L markers mark to campare with the maker mark (4) on this cross?

George, I personally must say I have my serious doubts in regards the period manufacturing from DK's by S&L.

For example why are these crosses not shown or even noted in famous books from the earlyer days? (for example in the Geissler book?), however im a non-believer in these crosses but im willing to believe whenever someone can proove it black on white. (Lets say for example => in old LDO magazines like "Schwert und Spaten", as im pretty sure iff they where periodly made there is a note somewhere bout S&L manufacturing these crosses.)


Cordial greetings,

[M. Zimmer]

Hello,


Lets get further on with this one as ieally interested in the outcome => is there anyone who can show us more S&L markers mark to campare with the maker mark (4) on this cross?

George, I personally must say I have my serious doubts in regards the period manufacturing from DK's by S&L.

For example why are these crosses not shown or even noted in famous books from the earlyer days? (for example in the Geissler book?), however im a non-believer in these crosses but im willing to believe whenever someone can proove it black on white. (Lets say for example => in old LDO magazines like "Schwert und Spaten", as im pretty sure iff they where periodly made there is a note somewhere bout S&L manufacturing these crosses.)


Cordial greetings,

Hello guys,

take a look at my S&L DK, it has no marker mark. look especially at the "ugly" rivets, they are similar to those in Gordon´s book.
By the way, I bought this piece by Harald Geißler, who is a good friend to me.

Mathias

[M. Zimmer]

Hello guys,

take a look at my S&L DK, it has no marker mark. look especially at the "ugly" rivets, they are similar to those in Gordon´s book.
By the way, I bought this piece by Harald Geißler, who is a good friend to me.

Mathias

#

avers

[Yuri D.]

I have never liked the S&L DKGs that look like that. They look like they're put together with 1957 parts to me.

Yuri

[Brian S]

Neither of these really look 'exactly' like the one in Gordon's book. The catch on Gordon's example owned by W. Munson is different. But aside from that Yuri, you looked at a closeup of the rivet nearest the hook on yours and compared to the example in Gordon's book? It seems very distinctive to me.

[Gordon Williamson]

Yuri,


Got your message. Interesting looking DK. The only thing that would have caused me to hesitate was the style of wreath used (and that the retaining clip appears to be rounded rather than the square wire stock S&L customarily used on both wartime and early postwar 57s. but that in itself isn't really a worry -i.e. Schwerin used both square and round wire catches on their badges)
All those I have seen marked or unmarked have had the wreath style as shown in the piece posted by Mathias. His is exactly how I'd expect an original wartime S&L DK to look. Textbook to me and far superior in quality to any made postwar by S&L using old stocks of parts.

Like this glittery horror





Regarding the sloppy rivets, bear in mind even original wartime S&L Knights Crosses sometimes have inadequate finishing to the eye for the suspension loop so I don't expect they were too worried about the rivets on the reverse of an award which weren't even visible. Having said that the postwar made stuff is REALLY sloppy.


Anyhow, I looked back though some old files of images of early 57 DKs and found this, with the same style of wreath as on Yuri's example.





Interesting though that it doesn't have the characteristics associated with S&L especially the catch/hinge.