Ek2002?

[Bill M]

--For the Iron Cross to reappear, Germany would have to become embroiled in a war comparable in national participation to those that DEMANDED the previous issuances.
--The EK is a serious thing, to issue it for less than total national involvement in spirit and participation would cheapen it's legacy. No offence to Germans who may currently (or in the near future) meet the original criteria, but let's hope it never has to be reinstituted.
--No offence again, but at the current rate they'd be issuing more 2001 EK's to the Brits and Americans...

[Dave Danner]

Link to Der Spiegel article on the matter: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...172982,00.html

I seem to recall we had this discussion before and the consensus was (nod to Rick L. for pointing it out) they only gave the EK for wars against France.

Seriously, though, Rick is right that these campaigns (Kosovo, Albania, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Somalia) are more akin to some of the colonial campaigns. So, rather than the EK, perhaps some sort of general honor decoration (with & without swords). Alternatively, some provision for swords on the Bundesverdienstkreuz or Ehrenkreuz and Ehrenmedaille der BW to distinguish combat awards from long service/good conduct. That still wouldn't work for distinguishing combat merit from combat bravery though.

One example of trying to make the distinction stick: the US Bronze Star was given for heroic or meritorious achievement. A "V" for valor separated bravery awards from merit ones. During Vietnam, it was decided that too many merit awards were being given for non-combat merit, so the Meritorious Service Medal was created.

Having said that the EK shouldn't be given for small wars, I will now backtrack a little. The precedent was set with the Croix de Guerre T.O.E. (same medal, different ribbon from the WW1 and WW2 models). However, I understand France has decided to no longer award the CdG TOE and use the Croix de la Valeur Militaire instead.

BTW, the Honor Crosses are for 5, 10 and 20 years' service. The Ehrenmedaille can be given after as little as 7 months of "faithful performance of duty and above average achievements." (BGBl. 1996 Teil I Seite 321, 19. Februar 1996).

The EK, as symbol of the Bundeswehr, is integral to the design of the honor crosses and medal, so the issue isn't the cross itself, but political correctness and how the reinstitution of the decoration would be portrayed. What Bundeswehr officer wants to see a picture of him with an EK1 on his chest next to a picture of Hitler wearing his? You can see the PDS and other German lefties salivating over that one.

Dave

[JensF.]

This is a really interesting discussion. We had the same in a German Reservists Forum at www.vdrbw.de

In my opinion we should create a new Iron Cross for the Bundeswehr. To follow the democratic line we should introduce the Pour le Merite too for all ranks, not only officers.

Why not an EK with the federal eagle in the center and the new date below. The back could be exactly like the 1813 one and teh ribbon in black-red-gold with a 1st class with pinback but, to follow the tradition as a prussian award, without a knights cross.

A wound badge could be possible too. The Einsatzmedaille can be awarded for wounds or posthumously, but it is no wound badge or medal for merit. It is more like the US Armed Forces Service Medal for "he was there and did something or nothing".

Best regards