L/12 spange

[Giel VW]

Hi guys,

Ben pointed out this might be a copy, I would love to hear some other opinions as well

[Giel VW]

...

[CMSgt]

Spange

Hi Giel

Here are pictures of my L/12 first model EKII Spange. What I see between yours and mine:

The date and swastika on mine are hand finished - you can see it on mine especially the 1

The claws on mine are better defined.

I can't see the edges on yours but mine appear to be filed.

Measurements:

30.5mm high
29.9mm wing span
25mm Date box width
6mm date box height

Cann't weigh it because the ribbon would throw the weight.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[mrg]

Hi Giel have to say the detail to the wreath, under the 1 (does not look like a flaw) eagles feet all cause concern for me. Whats your take on the pebbling? All the best

[tinmantis]

Hi Giel
IMO early juncker spangen are far rarer than people think
and also IMO I'd consider yours to be one of the good ones
the flaw is a plus for me
regards
jon

[Flemming]

Hi Jon.

When I compare Geil's Juncker to my two example, show in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=343120
I see a lot of differencies.
Mine is closer to Jims example.

But then again, I do not know if there's a differense betwen the L/12 and the umarked one.

/Flemming

[ben bijker]

Hi Giel
IMO early juncker spangen are far rarer than people think
and also IMO I'd consider yours to be one of the good ones
the flaw is a plus for me
regards
jon

Early or not, IMO the Spange misses detail has a lot of major flaws.
NOT the craftsmanship that one would expect from an early Juncker clasp.

I don't like the shape of the head, and especially the beak.

This particular clasp was discussed on MFF and got the
I fully agree with that, and the COA doesn't make it more original either.....
Here's the link:


http://www.militaria-fundforum.com/s...highlight=V2A4



Here is a pic of mine, pherhaps someone can put them side-by-side for a good comparisson.

[Giel VW]

With all due respect Ben, but we are not only looking at a different head, but at two completely different pieces when I compare mine to yours...

[ben bijker]

With all due respect Ben, but we are not only looking at a different head, but at two completely different pieces when I compare mine to yours...

The head is the most obvious to me.
But taht brings me to the next question: how many different 1st pattern dies did Juncker use?????
They can't have produced thousands of these 1st patterns...

[ben bijker]

Ok Giel, it is tying to be like the first example that Jim posted.

so here we go:
The beak is different
The line under the eye is different
the neck feathers
The horizontal top feather on the wing on the left is different
The eagles "legs" are completely different
Detail on the paws is missing
Swas is higher and appears to be thicker
(no signs of hand-finishing either)
The ribbon on the wreath (connection to the date-box) is different
The " 3" is different, so is the last "9"

The prongs on the reverse are very thick, and I don't like the finish either.


For me enough reason to believe that this is a copy, COA or not.....


Best regards,
Ben

[CMSgt]

Spanges L/12

I have created a merge of Ben's, Giel's, and my L/12. Look at the viens on the top wings and on both mine and Ben's they go almost all the way to the tip, where Giel's only goes half way. Also, missing is the hand finishing of the cross and numbers, which is evident in mine and Ben's. Jim

[ben bijker]

Jim, thanks for posting these side-by-side pics.

It's much easier to compare them like this.

Everyone should make up his own mind, but I still do not like it.

Best regards,
Ben

[AlikN]

Here is my to compare

[tinmantis]

Hi guys
(I'm very drunk)
but that aside, IMO there are 2 early juncker dies, I call them 'fat vien' and 'thin vien'
I've alwasys believed the thin-vien die is 100% good, and I've alwasy had a ? about the fat-viens. no proof, but I need to know more (like provenance etc)
regards
+ cheers!
jon

[tinmantis]

and
I only have a few thin-viens on file, all showing die flaws on the date
and a ton more fat-veins
one scenario: juncker cleaned up the die, and made the viens fatter? or made an altogether new die. can someone compare the pebbling? I can't see staright
regards
jon