Helmut Weitze

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

S&l ??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Sal,

    In my years of buying from vets, I have had very few Spanish Crosses, and I didn't buy the Spanish Cross with Brilliants that came in. It was not for sale. The owner's car was worth more than my house. I did get one gold Spanish Cross with Swords that did have the droop tails, but it was unlike all the fakes produced post-war. The droop tail was not as radical as on the fakes. It was sold and I wish I had kept it.

    I would like to see the close up photos of the droop tailed versions, on these boards. If they are the same as my memory allows, after all these years, I could have comfortable feelings that it was produced during the period. It is not impossible that Steinhauer and Lueck produced patterns that were not accepted and they remained in the warehouse. It is very unlikely that they were produced immediately post-war, if dies had to be created during that period of 1945 to 1950. I would think the original dies would have been sufficient to make any post-war production.

    We know that Lauer of Nurnburg and Assmann were involved in producing US insignia, in the immediate post-war period, but I have not seen any Steinhauer and Lueck production, other than the Naval clasp, which may turn out to be wartime production. Immediate psot war photos show naval personnel wearing the clasp in place of the breast eagle and they all appear to be identical, not shipboard made. They are made of bronze, which would be unusual for pre May 8,1945 production because of the strategic need for that copper in wartime, for munitions.

    I have no other information on immediate post-war production by Steinhauer, other than the testimony of US veterans who were bartering for medals at Steinhauer and at Deumer facilities.

    If someone could post good close up photos of the Spanish Crosses, from these boards, I would be most appreciative.

    Bob Hritz
    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

    Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post
      ......
      If someone could post good close up photos of the Spanish Crosses, from these boards, I would be most appreciative.

      Bob Hritz

      Considering what these are being sold for, I would "hope" that Barry or Detlev would be willing to offer the pictures if a member asked. However, you better be of the "stature" to purchase these items or you will ignored.

      Comment


        ...

        Originally posted by Darrell View Post
        Considering what these are being sold for, I would "hope" that Barry or Detlev would be willing to offer the pictures if a member asked. However, you better be of the "stature" to purchase these items or you will ignored.
        Uh, what do you mean?
        Aren't they offered to anyone and everyone?

        cheers
        Matt

        Comment


          Following a step by step "guide" written for me by my computer-literate son, here is a photo of the SK from the "emedals" site.
          Attached Files

          Comment


            And here is the one I posted (as a postwar fake) on July 29th of this year.
            At the time, I noted that, except for the down-tailed eagles and the obviously postwar pin and catch system, it would be accepted as an original wartime piece, as it is very clearly die struck, with edges so sharp that we jokingly referred to it in that thread as the "throwing star". The details on the eagles' chests have been polished down. I believe that the pin/catch are typical of the '57 style used on S&L's '57 badges.

            Back in July (and Sal and I were going at it back then, too, God bless him!), I said:

            "Sal,
            Until some PROOF comes along, these ARE fantasy pieces and I am agreeing with you. My personal opinion is only that there is a CHANCE that a real one will surface and I base that on: 1.) the Next-of-Kin box design, and 2.)(as strange as this may sound) the fact that some "fakes" using the droop-tail design were produced using very nice dies (but wrong hinge, etc.) when everyone (including the fakers) knew exactly what a "real" one looked like (from the front). Why even waste time using a totally "wrong" eagle which would instantly condemn the fake (like putting a "W" in the middle of a 1939 dated EK)? So.....I'll believe they were produced wartime when I see one I would trust (correct metal, correct die characteristics, correct hinge, pin and catch). It just won't be a surprise to me if this occurs one day.
            Regards,
            Leroy"
            Attached Files

            Comment


              Reverse of the one I posted in July.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Leroy; 10-30-2008, 09:40 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Matthew View Post
                Uh, what do you mean?
                Aren't they offered to anyone and everyone?

                cheers
                Matt
                Not everyone is known to have $20,000 in their back pocket. Apparently it's too much effort to get additional pictures if you are merely a Mortal that they feel can't afford it.

                Comment


                  Any further thoughts?

                  Comment


                    I only wish I had photographic records of everything unusual we found, back in the 1970s and 1980s. The Steinhauer Spanish Cross sertainly reminds me of the one Jeff Roth and I found, but I cannot be positive. I seem to recall that the swastikas may not have been fully cut out, but again, I cannot be positive.

                    The Cross Leroy posted could easily have been left over stock without hardware. When Steinhauer, or former employees, began refitting leftover planchetts and remaking awards, post-war, the fit, polish, and finish were definately inferior to the wartime produced awards. I have yet to see a post-war Steinhauer award that is up to the quality of the wartime produced awards in fit, polish, and finish. That is why I struggle with many of the current beliefs with Steinhauer Knight's Crosses, but do not delude myself into believing that Steinhauer did not produce post-war Knight's Crosses.

                    Bob Hritz
                    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                    Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

                    Comment


                      Leroy, can you please post a close-up of the area around the claws?

                      cheers
                      Peter

                      Comment


                        Thanks, Bob, for those observations.

                        When I got this cross, back in the 70's, I assumed (and had kept assuming) that it was (solely because of the eagles and pin/catch system), a postwar production. Now, based on the quality of the badge ITSELF (which I always believed was unusually nice), I am inclined to believe it is a wartime production piece which had the "new" pin/catch system added years later for sale.

                        I also echo Bob's observations about postwar RK production (with swastika) by S&L. This occured, without any question whatsoever, and in quantity. However, I have NEVER seen a postwar RK by S&L which matched the quality, in fit and finish, of their wartime produced awards. There is always something, however small, which is "just wrong" about them when they are examined in-hand.

                        Comment


                          For Peter J. :
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            Thanks Leroy. I agree, the quality on your cross is far superior than on my poor fake. They even managed to attach the pin the wrong way.

                            cheers
                            Peter
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              reverse
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                One more odd feature, the cross-hatching (indicated).
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

                                Users Viewing this Thread

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 4 users online. 0 members and 4 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                                Working...
                                X