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Last edited by Erickn; 12-09-2006, 08:03 PM. -
When I see this cross-hatching on an RK, I immediately think 'Juncker.'
From what Sebastian is saying, maybe this cross (EKII) I'm buying is not a Juncker. But as I stated earlier, I think it might be because of the look of the swasi and the 'hump' on the frame...along with the cross-hatching. I'll have it in a few days and post it for study. Others, please post some good shots of your L/12's so I can compare.
RobertComment
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If you guys dont mind me saying , this has been a very informative thread.
Nice to see you all thrash it out...
MarkComment
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Um, I wouldn't expect an answer here...appears this guy hasn't posted since Nov '03.Originally posted by Chris Jenkins View Post
HankUnless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
~ Dan Hampton, Viper PilotComment
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Juncker Cross Hatch
Hi everyone
Here is one that might help shed some light on this topic. although unmarked it was purchased from Detlev within the past year which came with a COA stating it was a typical Juncker. Note hump on frame, crosshatching on inner beading corners. detail pics of swaz and date.
Hope this helps. I was under the impression as most that Juncker alone has these traits. I would be very intrested to know the other manufacturers who had the crosshatched beading on the inner corners.Here are some picsLast edited by RICK S; 02-18-2007, 02:49 PM.Comment
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A very informative thread. Thanks to those who have contributed
RobComment
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I agree...informative thread...but it needs to go further.
I've been trying for quite a while to reconcile, in my own mind, the maker of the cross-hatched EK2 example presented by Rick (and other identical examples of the 'same' cross).
I understand that there's a certain school that believes these to be Junckers, but to my eye, it screams 'Wachtler & Lange', based on a number of attributes...albeit, with the exception of the cross hatching!
I refer to the 'low date', the 'hump', the overall shape of the frame...but especially the 'scrunched' beading die flaw near the corner of the 3 o'clock arm...all well known W&L attributes.
I have at least a half dozen W&Ls in my collection, and also one example identical to Ricks, with the cross hatching.
But there is one other common attribute that has always caught my eye on both. On the 'textbook' W&L examples, as well as the purported Juncker examples, there appear to be more 'beads per inch' on top 'rung' of the 12 o'clock arm, than on the corresponding 'rungs' of the other three arms. At one time I went so far as to count the 'beads per inch' on each of my examples (W&L type versus 'Juncker" type), and I assure you, it's no illusion! Both examples show that same feature!
It's been a month or so since I actually performed that exercise, and I don't recall the actual counts that I came up with, but I'm on a roll now, so I'll keep typing, and I'll post the actual closeup scans and counts which illustrate that feature later (I think the difference was something like 4 or 5 beads per inch, and was the same on both examples!).
Anyway, my bottom line is that the two examples are so similar, that there must be some connection, and I'd just like to know what that connection is (for example, are the cross hatched ones simply earlier examples from the same dies, whereas the cross-hatch feature has been obliterated in later examples by die wear?).
I'm honestly not trying to contradict anyone, or propose any radical theories...I'm just seeking the answer to a purplexing question.
My main curiosity is with respect to the 'scrunched' beading die flaw. It seems unlikely that this particular flaw would turn up in two different manufacturer's dies.
Regards,
TimLast edited by Tim K.; 12-07-2006, 12:32 AM.Comment
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That's the first thing that caught my eye was this characteristic which is similar to "100"s W&L's.Originally posted by Tim K. View PostComment
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Thank you, Rick, for the great photos. I believe the cross I just bought is the same cross you posted, only it has a non-magnetic core.???
Yes, I believe we should go forward with this thread. There are those who say they have non-Juncker, maker marked and cross-hatched EKII's. I'd really like to see full photos of these crosses. While we're here we should do all we can to come to some conclusions, or better theories. Anyway, I want to learn more about what really is a true Juncker EKII, and possible varients.
RobertComment
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For the time being I have taken a few shots of the EK I bought that hasn't arrived yet. This resembles the same cross that Rick just posted...
RobertComment
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