Russian "Fur Raub und Mord" Iron Cross Found

[Gregory Koepp]

i Like Jimmy!!!!

greg

[Dave Kane]

Greg...if the Crosses turn out to be something of value will you share the wealth with the sellers?

I ask just because of the manner in which you aquired the Crosses! I don't wish to 'soap box' as it were, but I'd hate for someone to take advantage of my elderly folks and 'hide' or 'stuff' something beneath other items for sale and subsequently gloat about the find..

Your account of how you 'did it' just hits wrong on several levels!

""OK, I went to a Estate Sale and found a old wooden tool box in the Garage and once I pulled it down, I opened and found a bunch of old smoking pipes and a tobacco bag with 3 Iron Crosses and one being a 1870 in outstanding condition! 2 others were Iron Crosses 2nd class?? (I THOUGHT) once I stuffed them back under the pipes and I paid for the box $15.00 I went home to glow on my new buy!""

[Hank C.]

Just to re-post my thoughts from a previous "R & M" cross thread, who the heck were these supposedly made for??? Would they pin them on POWs? If so, do you suppose the POWs would think "Gee, this is a great souvenir of my time in captivity, I think I'll take it back to Germany with me!" Or did advancing troops find them, and think, "Great souvenir! Those silly Ivans. I'm going to take this back to my son Wolfie in Germany, and show him what great trinkets the Russians make!"

Maybe they're out there....but to me, it just doesn't make sense. Of course, lots of stuff in war doesn't make sense, so who knows?

best
Hank

[Gregory Koepp]

On the question about how I got it, NO I'm not going to share my find....


He's dead, what does he care about what happened to his items sense his family sold all his crap off??

when I'm dead I'm sure not going to care what happens to my crap? burn it all I could care less..

so for the weak hearted, soft poor family collectors PLEASE KNOW I WILL TAKE YOUR STUFF AND MAKE A PROFIT!!!

thanks for caring but he sure won't.


greg koepp

[Jeff V]

My belief in these R&M crosses is zero. If ones looks at the terrible conditions during the siege of Leningrad, from the damage to buildings to large numbers of people starving to death, and compares that to the military items known to have been made during the siege like helmets, the result is low quality items that one would expect to see.
Now we are led to believe that starving people went through all the trouble to make 3-piece iron crosses as propaganda pieces. After these starving people tooled up to make these beautiful 3-piece EK's they only made 500. Well, maybe they died of starvation at that time.
Then these crosses somehow migrated out of a mostly closed soviet society into the hands of Americans.
The whole deal is absurd IMO.
jeff

[Jeff V]

On the question about how I got it, NO I'm not going to share my find....


He's dead, what does he care about what happened to his items sense his family sold all his crap off??

when I'm dead I'm sure not going to care what happens to my crap? burn it all I could care less..

so for the weak hearted, soft poor family collectors PLEASE KNOW I WILL TAKE YOUR STUFF AND MAKE A PROFIT!!!

thanks for caring but he sure won't.


greg koepp

Great attitude!
jeff

[Dave Kane]

On the question about how I got it, NO I'm not going to share my find....


He's dead, what does he care about what happened to his items sense his family sold all his crap off??

when I'm dead I'm sure not going to care what happens to my crap? burn it all I could care less..

so for the weak hearted, soft poor family collectors PLEASE KNOW I WILL TAKE YOUR STUFF AND MAKE A PROFIT!!!

thanks for caring but he sure won't.


greg koepp

....wow! What you did is akin to stealing...petty or grand depending on value.

We all have different manners of aquiring items but I think that a full disclosure of the box content would have been the proper thing to do!!

Enjoy the Crosses

[Hank C.]

....
when I'm dead I'm sure not going to care what happens to my crap? burn it all I could care less..

...edit...

thanks for caring but he sure won't.


greg koepp

We know he won't; I think the concern is, were there no relatives? If so, no biggie (IMHO), the company handling the estate sale shoulda checked.

If there was family (once again, my humble opinion), it would be nice when, if you did turn a nice profit, to maybe give 'em a little slice of the pie.

But, as you say, it's your stuff now to do with as you please.

best to all,
Hank

QUICK EDIT: Before we hang Greg in effigy, if you've kept mum on a good deal from somebody who didn't know better, you're just as guilty. A little bit of stealing is still stealing. Whether it was a small bargain, or huge, if you didn't say "Hey, this is worth way more than that", you're living in a glass house and throwing stones.

Hank

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...good or bad I do not know, If copys(there must be several) why nobody can post one? If real there have to be also some around?
Pieter.

[tinmantis]

I'm with Greg...

"I'm sure not going to care what happens to my crap? burn it all I could care less.."

can I have all your crap when you die please Greg?

regards
jon

[AUSGANG]

Occupation souvenier

For a while I collected souveniers made right after hostilities ended that were sold to the occupying GIs. Its an interesting field of collectible. In some cases the contractors that were making weapon parts switched over to making souveniers. I have some very elaborate cigarette lighters that look like American jeeps that are machined out of ingots and inscribed with numers and letters with a lathe. My guess is these crosses have nothing to do with Stalingrad at all (just add the provenance of Stalingrad to any Nazi stuff and the price doubles). I believe that these crosses are postwar, made to shame the Germans. I don't see the logic in making sarcastic awards for German POWs, nor wasting precious time and materials producing them. I think that they were produced directly after the war ended as souveniers. Postwar,but not by much,an occupation souvenier.

[Gregory Koepp]

PLEASE WAIT TIL I POST ALL PHOTOS TIL YOU START IN
17 PHOTO'S COMING

OK let's open this post up with photos.....

First off I don't care if this Russian Propaganda Iron Cross is real or fake.

After putting this Cross under a Microscope it looks like there is a brass core in the middle, if you can see or blow up the photos on your computer at the edges of wear you can see brass under the base medal??? or whatever it is? You can see the bubbling under the paint in some areas, also rust pitting.

I will say some remarks on some photos so you can see what I see?

Thanks Greg Koepp

[Gregory Koepp]

I am not going to add size and so on due to I can't find anyother Iron Cross like this, so it will hamper fakers??

greg

[Gregory Koepp]

1941 Date??

greg koepp

[Gregory Koepp]

There are acouple of repaint patches, on rust or?

greg koepp