Knights Cross War Service Cross With Swords--Issued And Worn

[George Stimson]

Reverse 6 o'clock arm flaw (better pic available on request).

[David R.]

The one I have with Swords has the 3 and the lower arm flaw
David R.

[RonR]

Here is a closer shot of the Cross without swords that is in post #40 to show the die flaw.

[Ron Weinand]

I have been very lucky in finding this particular TR medal from veterans in my motel buys: 2 with swords and 3 without swords (all in silver with ribbons and 2 of the 5 cased).
What was unusual to me was that 4 came from Schloss Klossheim (2 cased) and the markings in the bottom arm CAME TWO WAYS. With the 900 on the right in 3 and on the left on one. The 1 was on the opposite side. You can tell that these numbers were added by hand and no clear depth or spacing can be delineated.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

[Jody]

Flaw in RK des KvK w/out Swords

Hi folks,
I looked at my cross and I guess I found it, it is very, very small and I had to slightly turn the cross in order to see it.

Regards,
Jody

[Sal Williams]

It seems that some have flaws on the pebbling and some don't as well no?

Best, Sal

[ChrisJ]

Kvk

Regarding numbers of examples of these awards around compared with so few recipients recorded...not so worrying really, as there was probably an intention of awarded plenty, but for one reason or another it didnt happen. Most that we are unworn examples....the ribbon arrangement being the dead give-away.

Ron...your examples appear to have faintly defined flaws both to the "3" and the arm when compared to Stan's.... later examples maybe ?

Do you know anything more about these particular pieces ?

[Wade]

I would like to add my opinion regarding the flaw at the 3. As a coin collector, I have seen coins with many die flaws where a stress crack was forming and left various crack lines. You can always tell if the marking is due to a crack in the forming die, as the mark on the coin or medal will always be raised above the surface, because metal squeezes into the crack leaving the flaw. The crosses were made with similar forming dies and I believe the early made pieces would not have the mark, but as the die was used, a small crack appeared. Then all future struck pieces would have the flaw. I have a worn KVK without swords and it does not have the flaw, so I believe it is an early strike. Also the arm end markings are applied by hand, because it could not be struck durring the initial die forming, which only transfers designs to the top and bottom surfaces, so no two edge markings will ever be exactly alike. Different number stamp sets could have been used durring the period of production by the workmen who applied them, accounting for the small differences. My cross also shows hand finishing file marks on the sides of the wreath where the arms join. It looks like there was some metal that needed to be trimmed after striking to smooth out that area. Sorry for being so long winded.

[ChrisJ]

Flaws

Yep..that sounds reasonable Wade...but is the arm feature a raised area ?...(I dont think so).

Ron...can you give us the weights of your crosses, I bet they are both much the same, and heavier that Stans' !

[Wade]

If the arm flaw is not raised, then it would have to have been formed by something like a metal sliver stuck to the die, leaving the depressed mark. The only other way a depressed mark would be formed would be if the cross was hand worked after striking and the worker made a scratch on the surface. The arm flaw is too similar on several crosses to be a random hand working mark, so I think it is probably due to something stuck to the die. Slowly the flaw will change as the die is used over and over, causing the foreign object to smash or move. I am only using knowledge of production die coin and medal striking processes in comming to my opinion of how marks appear on the surfaces.

[Stan]

Knight's Cross of War Merit Cross

Here's another set of marks (RKdKVK without swords).

George,

My markings are identical.

Stan

[Stan]

Knight's Cross of War Merit Cross

Yep..that sounds reasonable Wade...but is the arm feature a raised area ?...(I dont think so).

Ron...can you give us the weights of your crosses, I bet they are both much the same, and heavier that Stans' !

Chris,

My cross weighs 38.5g.

Stan

[RonR]

Chris,

Here are the weights.

Worn Cross With Swords------43 Grams.

[RonR]

Cased Cross With Swords----43 Grams.

[RonR]

Cross Without Swords-----34 Grams.