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    #16
    Originally posted by VIPER View Post
    Detlev has stated that pre 45 provenance exits for the 935/4 as well as the rarer 800/4.................Jimmy
    Now that solves the case then!
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      #17
      Is the phot clear enough for a positive ID. Too see if it is the same cross.

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        #18
        Originally posted by VIPER View Post
        Detlev has stated that pre 45 provenance exits for the 935/4 as well as the rarer 800/4.................Jimmy

        ....of course, I'm not questioning them...
        Pieter.
        SUUM CUIQUE ...
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          #19
          Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
          Now that solves the case then!

          ...but not for you hé
          Pieter.
          SUUM CUIQUE ...
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            #20
            Pieter,

            if I (or anybody else for that matter) would always believe what people "state", your collection would be a lot bigger ...you might even have Hitler's underpants!

            I could quote a lot of other people (some of them you know and respect very well) which 'state' otherwise. Now what?

            And, old eagle eye, look at the photo that must show a S&L in the group offered.

            Dietrich
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              #21
              Originally posted by Pieter Verbruggen View Post
              ...the 935 4 S&L crosses are original wartime pieces, I will not even discuss this. Same as for the two hinged cases a lot of these came in.
              Pieter.
              My point is that I too believe these 935-4 crosses to be wartime, but wouldn't you agree that this grouping just further solidifies evidence for this arguement against the doubters. I can go back and look at D.'s site again, but I believe it read that he was awarded his Rk in 44. Now when he actually recieved it, I don't know, but I was happy to see this grouping early this morning.

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                #22
                ...Dietrich, please convince me why you believe the 935 4 are "post" war. The last set that surfaced in Germany was one to a soldier who was posthumously awarded in 1942, the mappe and a 935 4 S&L cross were sended to the family at the end of the war.
                What do we do with all the Schloss Klessheim 935 4 bringbacks?
                I really cannot follow.
                Pieter.
                SUUM CUIQUE ...
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                  #23
                  The Cross in wear does not appear to be an S&L...the arms seem to be quite angular!
                  Regards,
                  Dave

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
                    Pieter,

                    if I (or anybody else for that matter) would always believe what people "state", your collection would be a lot bigger ...you might even have Hitler's underpants!

                    I could quote a lot of other people (some of them you know and respect very well) which 'state' otherwise. Now what?

                    And, old eagle eye, look at the photo that must show a S&L in the group offered.

                    Dietrich
                    ....wouldn't that be a nice addition to the ones from Eva I have
                    Pieter.
                    SUUM CUIQUE ...
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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Dave Kane View Post
                      The Cross in wear does not appear to be an S&L...the arms seem to be quite angular!
                      ...I've seen dozens of sets with additional photo's of the owners wearing a different cross as the one in the group...this will never prove anything, even when we can determine its an S&L , how do we know it's an 935 4?
                      Pieter.
                      Last edited by Pieter Verbruggen; 05-04-2007, 11:02 AM.
                      SUUM CUIQUE ...
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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Dave Kane View Post
                        The Cross in wear does not appear to be an S&L...the arms seem to be quite angular!
                        The cross is lying on an angle causing some foreshortening. This whould tend to accentuate angeled surfaces in one dimension media such as a picture..........Jimmy

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Pieter Verbruggen View Post
                          ...Dietrich, please convince me why you believe the 935 4 are "post" war. The last set that surfaced in Germany was one to a soldier who was posthumously awarded in 1942, the mappe and a 935 4 S&L cross were sended to the family at the end of the war.
                          What do we do with all the Schloss Klessheim 935 4 bringbacks?
                          I really cannot follow.
                          Pieter.
                          I never ever said that the 935-4 are post war. And you know that.

                          All I'm saying here (and everywhere else) is that if somebody 'states' something it is by far not true. Live is not that easy.

                          My comment was in regards to "provenance" of 935-4 and 800-4 and the hasty deduction made from that.

                          The cross the soldier shows in the "935-4 group" is not an S&L. Now this is the second time a "935-4" group comes up where it doesn't seem to hold water. That does not speak well for this model in regards to actual awarded crosse.
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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Dave Kane View Post
                            The Cross in wear does not appear to be an S&L...the arms seem to be quite angular!
                            Hmmmmmm! Looks like an S&L to me in the photo. Maybe just my eyes. That point aside, it very well could be another cross, but not really my point, which was, and assuming that this is not a put together grouping, was that this Lt. had a cased 935-4 cross in his possession. Just something for a good discussion.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
                              I never ever said that the 935-4 are post war. And you know that.

                              All I'm saying here (and everywhere else) is that if somebody 'states' something it is by far not true. Live is not that easy.

                              My comment was in regards to "provenance" of 935-4 and 800-4 and the hasty deduction made from that.

                              The cross the soldier shows in the "935-4 group" is not an S&L. Now this is the second time a "935-4" group comes up where it doesn't seem to hold water. That does not speak well for this model in regards to actual awarded crosse.
                              ...I certaily agree on this one.
                              But don't you agree it's rediculous look for photographic evidence of a 935 4 cross,...how can you determine this type from a picture?
                              Pieter.
                              SUUM CUIQUE ...
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                                #30
                                Originally posted by VIPER View Post
                                The cross is lying on an angle causing some foreshortening. This whould tend to accentuate angeled surfaces in one dimension media such as a picture..........Jimmy
                                It was this same effect that gave rise too the belief that so called "Rounders" were seen in wartime photos...Jimmy

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