Bring back the IRON CROSS

[Robert T.]

If I understand this text correctly, this is an ongoing petition to bring back the IRON CROSS in the modern Bundeswehr.

What do you think of it ?
http://itc.napier.ac.uk/e-Petition/b...PetitionID=404

Thanks
_______________
Robert

[Alex K]

Good idea. It is THE german bravery award..

Regards, Alex

[MikeW]

English transulation please?

[Paratrooper]

Hi!

A very good idea in my opinion. I agree with the author of the petition. There are German soldiers threatened in special missions from larger dangers and they are only "awarded" with the same mission medal that gets each soldier, even the cook.
That is the reality and I want to try to explain you the reasons of this problem from an objektive point of view.

Unfortunataly the german Nation has still a problem with combat awards since 1945.
It’s “only” one german citizen not an organisation or a minister who wrote this petition and submit it at the parliament. I think there are no chances of an success.
In addition there is a law that the German army has no permission to make active combat missions. Therefore the German Secretary of Defense and the german president also have no permission to donate combat awards. To make possible the missions in Kosovo, Aghanistan etc. the german parliament declared this missions as an act of self defence.
These laws were made during Germany still was occupied.
The German constitution and the Basic Law would have to be changed and for many reasons this would be inconceivable.

Unfortunataly I have not the time to translate the petition now. I try to make it later.

Regards
Andreas

[SurvivingPanzer]

I once talked too a veteran who was adamante about the fact that he never fired his weapon in WW2. I thought it was legit at the time when he showed me a "5 year service campaign". I known now from this site that he was awarded an Iron Cross 2nd class. While it could be for a number of things I suspect it was for doing more than being a telecommunications private in a reserve division throughout the war. (especially as this division saw brief comabt experience)

Why is this relevant to this thread?

I think since history is written by the victors many German veterans have altered the truth of their accomplishments as a result of the fact that they were on the losing (therefore "evil" as US history depicts it) side. If current veterans can take pride in their sacrifices for their country without dealing with the shame of the Nazi's crueltiies maybe more veterans would come foward with their stories. And to be honest, we need to document these stories as well as possible.

[Robert T.]

Thank you all for your comments so far .

@PARATROOPER ; it would be great if you would do the translation, I could not get the English version from the site.

I think that "OUTSIDE FORCES " will make quite difficult for the parliament to touch the subject, much easier to stay away from it.

Regards,
____________
Robert

[DonC]

An inelegant translation from Babel Fish:

<!--StartFragment --> The Petent asks to decide the German Bundestag to introduce the iron cross as earnings/service medals for outstanding achievements of German Federal Armed Forces soldiers again. Reason: The world-wide employments of the German Federal Armed Forces increase ever more - German soldiers defend their homeland "at the Hindukusch". Contemporaneous the soldiers are loaded by shortening the pensions, omission/shortening of various privileges (holiday pay, Christmas benefit) ever more. Disappointing etc. beside financial, continuing private loads by location locking, transfers, in the framework of current structural reforms and risen case-hardening is often it, as little support and acknowledgment (in the simplest case at least a positive perception) one as a soldier in the public experience. Decorations of the German Federal Armed Forces, like the honour medal or the honour cross of the German Federal Armed Forces (in bronze, silver and gold) have neither a deep historical meaning, nor they are lent according to "reservedly", than that they can often be considered as particularly (purely the service is crucial without here really special achievements to have furnished). Also the Order of Merit, which appears rather unsuitable alone already by the number of carriers and award practice (in first line honour of social commitment and earnings/services around the public interest) for soldiers, their achievements to appreciate, cannot replace the function and meaning of an iron cross. The fact that German soldiers daily special dangers in the respective user country are exposed around interests with regard to foreign policy to intersperse, carry to employment medals not sufficiently calculation. It is good that there are these. If one considers however that the simplest stage (bronze) receives such employment medal each soldier equally, then becomes quite fast clear that another honor is necessary. Because both the soldier in the comparatively safe Camp with 30 employment days and the patrol leader with 300 employment days receive the same employment medal. The latter is possibly daily in the visor probably-deliberate forces and in the worst case is wound/killed or saves under employment of its life comrade. Even a formal acknowledgment or other "rewards" service gentlemen is not sufficient for certain achievements simply. The German Federal Armed Forces became the army in the employment. Outstanding achievements (described like already) should be particularly honoured after possibility and be served also by visible indications other comrades for the model. For this the iron cross (EK) would be ideally suitable from military-historical view. It is anyway authorized for carrying at the volume buckle and in its form of 1957 (even if there are probably hardly still living carriers of the EK). A stretcher way on the left breast pocket as putting cross in place of the achievement badge (which in miniature form at the volume buckle to be then carried should) would be practicable and an indication on the service uniform, visible for other comrades. If you along-draw this Petition, i.e. to support, fill out you want please the following form and click you on "MITZEICHNEN" everything with * characterized fields are mandatory.

[Robert T.]

DonC,

A gallant effort anyway .

Cheers,
__________
Robert

[FrankS]

It's just a petition. Every German citizen can submit a petition. While the petitoner is right in most what he is writing he just wasted his time - this will lead no where. No serious German politician will support this petition unless he wants to end his political career immediately.

By the petitioner's writing it sounds like he is a Bundeswehr soldier himself. He just put himself on the watch list for right wing suspects of the Military Defence Service (the Bundeswehr intelligence Service).

That's the way it goes nowadays in Germany.

[atcase]

HMMMMMM
the Iron Cross was only issued in times of war, is Germany fighting a war at present or particpating as part of a multi national force, all in all i doubt if it will ever happen JMHO

Ashley

[Bob Hritz]

I would like to see the Iron Cross reinstituted for German soldiers. It is the decoration of Germany and has been so since Fredrick the Great.

however, I do not think it has much of a chance without the leadership of the generals and politicians. I am still surprised that the 1957 pattern was ever allowed, so there is always hope.

Perhaps the press will get the interest of the generals and chiefs of staff. Perhapos the generals will grow testicules enough to DEMAND national recognition for those who distinguish themselves on the battlefields.

Bob Hritz

[DonC]

I feel the EK is a dead issue, period. What I think might work is some sort of new award that approximates the EK (the Maltese cross is a common enough symbol on post-45 German awards) that would only be awarded in combat situations to distinguish it from the "service crosses" that are currently awarded. You can't tell me that even if the BW units are kept "out of harm's way" in Northern Asscrackistan that the locals still aren't popping a few shots off at them on occasion. I doubt the standard NATO "been there" medals have much cachet with the troops. Just my .02 Euro...

Don

[VtwinVince]

Being from an old Prussian family, many of whose members won the EK, I would be against this idea. The EK is not a German, but rather a Prussian decoration, and was co-opted by Hitler for propaganda purposes. Prussia as a legal entity was stricken from the map of Europe by a unilateral declaration of the Soviet Union in 1947. First, reconstitute Prussia, then let's talk about resurrecting the EK.

[DaveNZ]

No, I cant see the EK being brought back: it would open up too many cans of worms and bring too many skeletons out of the cupboard for too many folk.

Its a shame, but given the modern history of the EK I guess I can see why this is.

Political correctess...

[Robert T.]

I see that we are all in agreement .
Since we surely will not see a modern EK coming out ,we can still enjoy the older ones.

L / 11 , you may look but don't touch .
__________
Robert