Rk S&l

[ChrisJ]

"To B-type or not to B-type"......that was the question.

Dents ot no dents, reflections or no reflections......how anyone could think that that cross is post-1945 is beyond me.

It just screams out.........ORIGINAL !

You are totally missing the point Robin....

It is a very charismatic piece, and if it had been a "B" then it would have been extremely iinteresting vis a vis time lines.

[Robin Lumsden]

If it had dents, then it might have been post 1945

[ChrisJ]

Please dont take out of context, Robin...

[Dietrich Maerz]

"To B-type or not to B-type"......that was the question.
Dents ot no dents, reflections or no reflections......how anyone could think that that cross is post-1945 is beyond me.
It just screams out.........ORIGINAL !

Dear Robin,

I can't help if it's beyond you but if thoses tricky reflections would have turned our to be the B-type dent rows, this piece could sing or scream the whole last movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony and it still would be very questionable.

I admire your instinct and the capability to listnen to pieces. I hope some don't lie to you anymore...

Dietrich

[Leroy]

Dietrich, please remind us. How many "dents" on the three o'clock lower arm will turn a cross from a wartime "B" to a postwar "B", in your opinion?

[Dietrich Maerz]

I can't answer this question. I can only say that the (what I consider) first B-Type (the 935-4) has 13 clearly distinct dents. From that it goes downward in number and definition.

I do not profess to know where the dividing line between pre- and post May 45 is. I'm only sure that there is one and so far the only B-Type with relatively sound provenance (for me) is the 934-4.

[Robin Lumsden]

Please dont take out of context, Robin...

Chris.

Sorry......I'm not trying to take anything out of context. Really.....I'm not.

I am the first to admit that I am NOT a connoisseur or student of Knight's Crosses, as you, Dietrich, Pieter etc. clearly are. I know that you and others here have a much greater knowledge of all the makers of these crosses and their products' characteristics.

I really have little or no interest in Iron Crosses.

It's just that I sometimes despair when someone posts what is obviously an original item, only to be bombarded with requests for better pictures or for details of die flaws, weights, etc. etc. This seems to happen more and more regularly right across the forums.

It's like these airy-fairy literary critics who try to read into a poem, film, etc. some deeper meaning that the poet or movie director never intended to be there in the first place.

I think a lot of people on the forums are being put off from posting some really nice original items because they know that whenever they post them someone will jump in questioning originality based on a thread alignment, microscopic dot, or something like that.

Some things are just beyond question.....and that Knight's Cross is one of them.

Rant over.

[George Stimson]

If something is obviously an original item then it should be able to withstand a bit of reasonable query -- just like the RK in this thread did.

[Dietrich Maerz]

It's just that I sometimes despair when someone posts what is obviously an original item, only to be bombarded with requests for better pictures or for details of die flaws, weights, etc. etc. This seems to happen more and more regularly right across the forums.

Don't forget the other examples! When people post a piece which was turned down and was correct in the end. It works both ways. I also know that some people are put off by the 'cold' approach of looking at fakes with microscope and other measurables. If you would have seen the nearly perfect cast copies of oaks, you would stuff your ears so you no longer hear these little buggers shout out to you "Buy me, I'm good".

It's like these airy-fairy literary critics who try to read into a poem, film, etc. some deeper meaning that the poet or movie director never intended to be there in the first place.

Since you introduced the Shakespearean twist into your posting with "B-Type or not to B-Type" let me answer like this:

"Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fakes, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them?"

Some things are just beyond question.....and that Knight's Cross is one of them.

Okay. That's good. A lot of Knights Crosses, however, are not and by the first looks of it this could have been one - whether you see it or not. Way too many people have been burned by the ton's of post war S&L and, believe me, most of them have been attached with so heart wrenching stories of valor and glory that you would sit down and cry. And all of them were wrong.

And don't forget all those nice S&L A-Types with flawed beading which were considered by the majority of the collecting commiunity to be fakes. The 'microscopic' and forensic approach could prove that those are good and pre-45. I'm sure that there are multiple example in your field of expertise...

[StefanK.]

Do i unterstand right - the later the cross the less amount of dents?


Stefan

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, but not just in the sense of "completely gone", but more in the sense of "disappearing in definition". The picture shows the dent row of a very late (post 57), unmarked, unmagnetic swastika cross from S&L. The denst are less defined and the frist one (right) and the last ones (left) are nearly gone, when compared to the 935-4.

[StefanK.]

how do you know that this cross is post 57?

Stefan

[WenRan]

What a thread ...........
Many things to learn

[Dietrich Maerz]

Robin,

just as a side note: I have just finished the chapter regarding the S&L Knights Cross. A total of 46 pages with 60 pictures. Just for S&L! Juncker was only 22. And I still have the feeling I have not answered all questions...

Dietrich

[Darrell]

Robin,

just as a side note: I have just finished the chapter regarding the S&L Knights Cross. A total of 46 pages with 60 pictures. Just for S&L! Juncker was only 22. And I still have the feeling I have not answered all questions...

Dietrich

Good news D. Any idea how many pages total when complete?